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Swann BUTEL

Maltese curiosity

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Swann BUTEL

Hi every one,
 

I ask myself about Maltese on rings...
I work iron cross/ cross pull and straddle planche but i see many gymnast unable too perform a planche but very strong on maltese. So i decided too begin maltese work in addition to my planche training. 
Wich exercice is unavoidable for mastering maltese ? With wich exercice i can begin maltese ?  I think one exercice for understand the body line like board press and one exercice for straight arm strenght like maltese press on low ring, maltese lean too maybe ? I can try just too support slowly lower to maltese many time ? should i work on isometric too with band ?
My goal is perform maltese on iron cross trainer in 6 months, i can do 10 rep on maltese press on low rings with strap on wrist and hold maltese on board for some seconde.

Thx a lot 

 



 

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Everett Carroll

Hi Swann,

I do not suggest training maltese until your planche has been perfected. In order to ensure your planche training goes well, I suggest beginning the Foundation Series. Foundations is designed to properly prepare you for advanced rings training. Without the proper base of strength and joint preparation that Foundations provides you risk injury or, at the very least, a plateau in progress. Once the Foundation Series is complete then you are safe to begin basic rings training (Rings One) and advance from there.

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Alexander Egebak
14 hours ago, Swann BUTEL said:

Hi every one,
 

I ask myself about Maltese on rings...
I work iron cross/ cross pull and straddle planche but i see many gymnast unable too perform a planche but very strong on maltese. So i decided too begin maltese work in addition to my planche training. 
Wich exercice is unavoidable for mastering maltese ? With wich exercice i can begin maltese ?  I think one exercice for understand the body line like board press and one exercice for straight arm strenght like maltese press on low ring, maltese lean too maybe ? I can try just too support slowly lower to maltese many time ? should i work on isometric too with band ?
My goal is perform maltese on iron cross trainer in 6 months, i can do 10 rep on maltese press on low rings with strap on wrist and hold maltese on board for some seconde.

Thx a lot 

 



 

Can we see some videos or pictures of your best planche and cross positions?

If you cannot hit these well you have some work to do before specific maltese work. Remember that the people who are ready for training maltese or have one already with having mastered the above are or have been under the supervision of an experienced coach who knows about their strengths and weaknesses.

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Swann BUTEL

Thx for your answer,

My goal is not to perform an matlese on rings, but on iron cross traineer for feeling the moove. i know i m too weak for maltese right now but for i can do some exercice like board maltese press for exemple for begins the maltese work. Off course my primary goal is strengthening my iron cross and straddle planche. how many second i must hold iron cross and straddle planche for begin a real maltese work ?
I m interested too know wath type off exercice you consider mandatorie too mastering for the maltese for my personal curisoty. 

I will join some picture off my work later
 

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Swann BUTEL

I read this on this forum.

" when you have 15 20 sec iron cross hold with a smile you can begin maltese works " 
This answer include some basic exercice like press on low ring and board press ? 

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Alexander Egebak

Can we see your holds just to make sure that you are doing them to adequate standards before we give further advice?

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Swann BUTEL

Yes,

this is my best planche.

an my best iron cross hold on gym rings 

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Swann BUTEL

My form is not clean i know that, but i works for, this is an old video now i can old 6 sec for 5 set.

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Swann BUTEL

And thios is my straddle planche to handstand

 

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Brian Li

Your old cross was done with bent arms, are you able to hold it with locked arms now? Your planche should also be much stronger before starting dedicated maltese work.

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Francesco Pudda

Well, I'd strongly suggest you to improve the form of your holds or better, restart with good form.

Straddle planche: hips way too high and piked (they should be in a straight line with the shoulders); and I cannot see your scapulae very well, but it seems they are neither protected nor depressed, this should be fixed too.

Iron cross: I don't know if you are conditioned for it, anyway, never bent your arms! you have your arm completely bent (and shoulders high), but this means that as soon as you will straight them out, you will be completely unable to reach that angle and you will risk at least tendinitis if you persever and you are not prepared

SP to HS: well the straddle planche is like before and the handstand is arched. basically you started the movement from the hips instead ofthe shoulders

 

I won't necessarily suggest foundation, because you may not want to buy it; but at least go back of A LOT of steps before even thinking about maltese, and restart with perfect form.

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Swann BUTEL

Yess i m very agree with and i work on my form for this 2 moove

Thx a lot

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Alexander Egebak

I agree with the other comments; you have some refinement work to do before maltese work is relevant.

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Francesco Pudda
13 hours ago, Swann BUTEL said:

Yess i m very agree with and i work on my form for this 2 moove

Thx a lot

It's not only a matter of pure form, like can be aesthetics (pointed toes for example).

It's a matter that you will end up to never get a good form if you just try by attempt. And this is about straddle planche, where you DO HAVE strength but in all likely at different angles. Isometrics are very position specifics, and train for them at a different position won't give you strength for the correct one. You can keep on trying that, but I'd suggest you to incorporate at least some good form pseudoplanche and/or tuck planche. Maybe try those out near a mirror or with a spotter.

As far as iron cross is concerned, you are risking to injure yourself by performing it with bent elbows, first and without proper conditioning, second. For conditioning I mean clean rings muscle, back lever, rope climbing (if possible), and rings support hold; AT LEAST. Moreover, even if you had super prepared elbow, as for straddle planche, as soon as you will straight them out, you won't be able to get that down like before, so you're basically not training for iron cross. So start always with straight arms, it doesn't matter if you won't get that down. There are tons of exercises out there like assisted, with dream machine, pull outs (with supported legs). They are all good as long as you are well prepared for them. Be cautios.

As regards SP to HS, the movement should start from the shoulder, and actually hips wouldn't move either. But obviously you need a good handstand. So maybe incorporate some shoulder bridge work at least, and some wall handstand to improve your form.

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Swann BUTEL

Thx you a looootttt for all your message, 

For straddle planche : i can do 30 sec tuck planch and 12 14 sec adv tuck, for all planche training i do adv tuck for 5x10sec ( 2 at 3 time a week) , my goal is to be capable to perform 3x15sec adv tuck with good form, i do tuck planche to straddle planche too and i come back to tuck 5x3 rep with 1 sec hold each, and planche to HD with band set of 3 5 RM ( 5 set). I can hold tuck on rings too for 10 15 sec but i don't work this for the moment. Off course i can old HD for many sec.
When i do straddle to HD i know i arch my back and my mouvement is ugly, for this reason i work it with band. I don't understand why i m pike, i thinks its because my shoulder is not stronger enough for the straight position ( the lever is too high maybe ?). I do variation off weighted  reverse hyper for 20 rep, and 30 rep on bodyweight but i don't thinks is the probleme. I have a loot a difficult to keep my body straight on planche.
When i have  toes pointed, i have a cramp ... lol

For the conditionning and iron cross,  i work the good form on erdo 5 x 6 sec on my max old, i can do 10 muscle up easy, 15 russian dips, front and back lever for 10 sec easy too ( i never test my max on this two moove) 5 chin with 45 kg and OA chin too. I warm up with support old and swing RTO. I can do 15 fly on lower ring with perfect form ( elbow straight). 

I have no acces to a real gym, i train on fitness gym.

 

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Alessandro Mainente

NO straddle planche here and correct iron cross. 

straddle planchre requires flat hips and also the press to hs.

The iron cross must begin from a correct support position which must be showed prior to the cross.

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Luke Searra

Swann, you are strong for sure but you have to realise you are missing very basic foundational preparation in all of your movements. Everett's suggestion is not only for your strength and growth in gymnastics strength but also to stave off any type of tendonitis related injury in your cross training. As Alessandro says, your straddle blanche also needs some refining. Consider Foundation One.

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Swann BUTEL

Off course its a good idea, i have no doubt about quality off foundation  but i want to try to correct my self alone in the first time for my personal experience =), if i fail sure i begin the foundation.
Do you think ring fly its better than back lever in secondary exercice for iron cross ? if straight arm exercice can be perform with high rep (15 and more) or its better weighted with lower rep  ?

Thx for all your advice.

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Alessandro Mainente

I think that a bad fall on straight arms strenght it is that you can torn completely the biceo tendon . there is no more iron cross after that.

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Swann BUTEL

By straight arm i mean  exercice like ring fly for 4 -5 x 10 after my strenght exercice ? It's a good core exercice too 

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Alessandro Mainente

Sorry but suggesting this type of exercises without knowing the level of specific preparation it is against my way of coaching.

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Swann BUTEL

I Can do easily 5x10 rep on this exercice i just want to know if this exercice can help for iron cross or if i remove this moove of my workout for better one ? 

Wath is your review ? 

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Darin Phoenix

H Swann,

Luke, Everett and Alessandro have given you some great advice not only to aid you in being able to progress to the more advanced skills that you are aiming for, but also to prevent you from injuring yourself.  It is no good asking people for advice and then disregarding it because it is not what you want to hear.

Iron cross and Maltese are exercises that it takes years of conditioning to achieve.There is no shortcut to properly conditioning the joints and tendons.

If you are truly serious about achieving these skills then making sure that you have some solid foundations is the best advice that we can give. If you want to ignore that and continue to try and develop them through your own personal experience then you will proceed at your own risk.

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Swann BUTEL

Hi Darin,

I ignore nothing, in fact i focus on my form this week and my cross and planche look better, all your tips have been beneficial and i thank you again for that. 
 

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Coach Sommer

Hello Swann,

You are not ready for maltese training.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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