My Current Focus: HBP/PE2

How would one progress the first couple sets above 15? It looks unstructured to me

Dylan Robertson said:

How would one progress the first couple sets above 15? It looks unstructured to me

You just push hard in all sets. For the first sets you can do more than in the latter sets. Eventually you accumulate a lot of volume across the five sets, and your body gets used to it. Then when you taper the first sets down to fifteen reps for your mastery attempt, you have much more gas in the tank for the last sets.

And trust me, if you're doing, say, 77 reps across five sets distributed on e.g. 20-18-16-13-10, it becomes a lot easier to convince yourself that you're prepared for mastery.

My thoughts:

 

How many times a week do you train when the shoulders/arms are involved? I have changed my training schedule so that I only train shoulders/arms 3 (max 4) days a week. That gives my shoulders 3-4 days rest/recovery a week. This might help you.

 

How is your breathing? Often we forget to breath properly (or even worse entirely) when our thoughts are on making an amount of seconds or reps. I did this mistake with archbody holds etc.

 

Counting reps, instead of counting 1-15, try counting 1-5 3 times. This type of counting helped me with the 60 reps exercises.

 

Relax the parts of the body/muscles that are not involved in the exercise.  I help a couple of guys with foundations and from my experience some tense up their entire body instead of the muscles that realy needs to be used. Like in a hollow body hold, you dont need to tense your face or arms. This will save energy.

 

Good luck and Never Give Up!

 

 

PLease guys don't hate me on this one, but I've noticed that as my strength increases, my reps on easier exercsies increases aswell.

Damn, no love for my Naughty by Nature reference? Guess I'm pandering to the wrong crowd, haha.

Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:

Damn, no love for my Naughty by Nature reference? Guess I'm pandering to the wrong crowd, haha.

Do not feel too bad, I understood

Wow! 8 pages!. This was supposed to be my simple anti-delusion pushup log.

 

Week 1/4: 9, 9, 9, 9, 9

 

Last set was a bit shaky. Could be because I was out for 14 days (1 week consulting + 1 week sick) or could be because this is my borderline ability since at 15rI was dropping significantly after 3rd set.

 

 

-Nash

My newest strategy to conquering HBP/PE2: losing some fat Maybe if I can get rid of few kilograms of that useless stuff, I can finally master this one.

Damn!

 

Week 2/4-a: 10, 10, 10, 10, 7

 

It looks like starting with 9 reps was to optimistic (and 5x9 is my current limit).  I'm going to do Week 2/4-b at 8 reps. Then week 3/4 at 9 reps. This simulates starting at 7 reps.

 

* Been forgetting to do my dailies at 30%-40%. Putting in a reminder for the rest of the week.

 

 

-Nash

I'm currently working on 5x10r HBP/PE2. Once I will be able to do 5x10r easily with no pause at the top, I will do 5x11r, then 5x12r etc. until 5x15r.

2 months ago it looked like this :

Set 1 : 10r

Set 2 : 8r, rest at the top, 2r

Set 3 : 6r, RT, 2r, RT, 2r

Set 4 : 6r, RT, 2r, RT, 2r

Set 5 : 4r, RT, 2r, RT, 2r, RT, 2r

Today it looks like :

Set 1 : 10r

Set 2 : 10r

Set 3 : 10r

Set 4 : 10r

Set 5 : 6r, RT, 2r, RT, 2r

 

Keep working hard, it will pay off.

 

If someone told me that Push-Up was my main weakness one year ago, I wouldn't have believed it

Nash said:

Damn!

 

Week 2/4-a: 10, 10, 10, 10, 7

 

It looks like starting with 9 reps was to optimistic (and 5x9 is my current limit).  I'm going to do Week 2/4-b at 8 reps. Then week 3/4 at 9 reps. This simulates starting at 7 reps.

 

* Been forgetting to do my dailies at 30%-40%. Putting in a reminder for the rest of the week.

 

 

-Nash

I was stuck round about the 50 mark ie 5x10 for nearly a year. I hit 5x12 recently and I am working on 5x13 at the moment. A couple of things have changed for me. Firstly the football season ended which meant I was no longer going balls to the wall twice a week which I am sure affects my recovery and work capacity. It also meant I was able to go from a 2 day a week schedule to a 3 day a week schedule. Also I have been doing 3x6 on my off days (during the weekdays) as Zach suggested which I think really helps from both a physical and psychological angle.

This is my Deload Week (although I had a minor injury where I had to take off from Mastery week):  5x8 => 40 overall easy reps in.  And although the minor sprain was around my left arm area (from finger tingle to forearm), 2 weeks ago, I was surprised I executed 4x12 (could've went for 15 rep range at least on the first set or 2, but thought about that after the fact).  

 

The injury was a few exercises before it (as I was executing F7), being the Planche (sPL/SE1); I overworked the strength and mobility (instead of going s/m/s/m/s/m (Block 1 Week 1), I went sss/mmm then s/m/s/m (don't try that at home or anywhere, lol).  I did that because during my first strength execution I wasn't satisfied with it so I went again and again and again, back to back, same with the mobility; in which I put on too much stress on my arm.

 

During my recovery week (last week), as I was learning from my mistake I re-watched my form videos, read through the comments, and read through this forum (in the earlier pages), I realized to have a 'hollow back' is key.  Even during my injury, I tried to find ways of self recovery and found an earlier Planche hold, I mastered, helped.  And around the forums (I believe in here as well), there's mention with PPP is a good look as well.  Although I'm not up to that level (which is the next after this; being HBP/PE3), it's powerful and I feel the execution of 1 set, or 2 (after some practice) of  a few reps (I'm on 3 reps), it helped me recover (@ least 80%+) and I'm looking forward to struggling with that after mastery of this HBP/PE2.

Nash - I've been following this discussion in detail as I'm just a few weeks into PE2 myself.  Thanks to this thread I wisely started at week 5 instead jumping in at week 9.

 

We're all pulling for you so I'm sure I wasn't the only one bummed out about seeing you miss on 5x10.  I have a couple things for you to think about.  I'm not a coach so these are just based on personal experience.

 

The first is about pushing harder.  Based on the video a lot of people said you stopped too early and I think this is worth considering.  I totally agree with you not wanting to break form, but you stopped before you even broke tempo.  It looks like you have at least 3 or 4 more good reps in you, all be it at a slower pace.  I think pushing hard through those reps is what will allow you to adapt to more work.  Sure, breaking tempo is not allowed for mastery, but it should allow you to make progress.  

 

The second is something that worked well for me a couple years ago when trying to increase my pullups (before GB).  Based on how pullups felt to me, it was clear that higher numbers required this interesting combination of strength and endurance.  So I started training pullups twice a week, one day dedicated to strength, the other day dedicated to endurance.  The first day I would do sets of 2 or 3 reps using added weight, and try to increase the weight every week.  Then three days later I would do band-assisted pullups and choose a band that would allow me to do 5 or 6 sets of 15-20 reps.  My numbers went up very fast with this approach.  I think if I get stuck on pushups I will try this, although probably alternating weeks based on new information.  So one week will be feet elevated pushups or maybe added weight, then the next week will be inclined pushups (like PE1) for sets of 25 to 30.  I've already been adding the the half-volume on off days.

 

In weight lifting I've heard of the mitochondria paradox.  Muscle growth is limited by the number of mitochondria in the cells.  Strength training increases muscle growth but decreases the number of mitochondria.  Endurance training increases the number of mitochondria but reduces muscle fiber.  So it seems getting stronger requires a balance of both strength and endurance training.

Thank you so much for the kind words Bob.

 

Yeah, I know the videos make it seems like I'm giving up too soon. Trust me, I have other versions where I'm screaming and bitching while trying with same results, but I've found only two ways to increase reps. Either break form or hold at the top for a few seconds. If my current plan doesn't work, on my next one, I might incorporate the top holds.

 

When I can no longer go, sometimes I work hard on summoning every single ounce of energy left to just finish that half rep (usually I'm stuck in the middle) and man, not even one inch of movement comes from that. It's hard to explain, but it feels like I'm just stuck and can't move no matter how much I try.

 

At this point, I, even don't know if it's physical or mental, but either way, I will get to 5x15. It's going to be an interesting learning experience.

 

> The second is something that worked well for me a couple years ago when trying to increase my pullups (before GB).  Based on how pullups felt to me, it was clear that higher numbers required this interesting combination of strength and endurance.  So I started training pullups twice a week, one day dedicated to strength, the other day dedicated to endurance.  The first day I would do sets of 2 or 3 reps using added weight, and try to increase the weight every week.  Then three days later I would do band-assisted pullups and choose a band that would allow me to do 5 or 6 sets of 15-20 reps.  My numbers went up very fast with this approach.  I think if I get stuck on pushups I will try this, although probably alternating weeks based on new information.  So one week will be feet elevated pushups or maybe added weight, then the next week will be inclined pushups (like PE1) for sets of 25 to 30.  I've already been adding the the half-volume on off days.

 

I like this a lot. With my current plan I'm going for high reps only during deload weeks. Go crazy on reps for 2 sets. I'm not sure if this going to be enough (once/month). I might need to increase it.

Nash said:

Yeah, I know the videos make it seems like I'm giving up too soon. Trust me, I have other versions where I'm screaming and bitching while trying with same results, but I've found only two ways to increase reps. Either break form or hold at the top for a few seconds. If my current plan doesn't work, on my next one, I might incorporate the top holds.

I haven't seen your video's (yet), but holding at the top may just be the key:

Straddle planche is the static version of Hollow Back Press.  I realized during my recovery last week, as I was practicing a little of sPL/PE5, that my back muscles were tense 'after the fact', as if my back went through some routine of their own.

 

Going through further research, I noticed the GB video still of sPL/PE3 ending position (the hold) is very similar to HBP/PE2's starting position (and it's called hollow back press for a reason).  As I'm going through my pushups (deload week @ 8 reps by 5 sets), I would get 'stretch' at the top; the hollow back.  The feeling is almost like pushing 'further' away from the floor, if that makes sense, and there is that further tension that's given at the top (and I think my arms are locked at that time of hollow tension).  

Nash said:

 

> The second is something that worked well for me a couple years ago when trying to increase my pullups (before GB)... 

 

I like this a lot. With my current plan I'm going for high reps only during deload weeks. Go crazy on reps for 2 sets. I'm not sure if this going to be enough (once/month). I might need to increase it.

Nash, I could be wrong with saying this, but you may be burning your muscles out (or overtraining) in doing that on deload week.  Isn't deload week similar to taking time off for the body to rest after all the 'intense work' put upon it, especially after Mastery week?

 

EVERYONE, throw your opinions out on this one.  My thought was more on how the body needs to recover.  This was from thoughts back when I was lifting weights by taking a week off from training, periodically.  But in this case, it would be to go 'average' training with the use of deload week (as the intensity is brung down a few notches).

 

Thinking further, mention of deloading was talked about further somewhere (forum(s) / podcast(s) / current (and/or) past intro article / etc. (I'm not sure where)).  Links would be great to go through if anyone has any to post.  (looks like I got some homework to do as well)

I'm with you kingzlo.  I typically come back stronger after a deload and see many other people with the same experience.  I think someone on this thread said they usually regress the week after a deload, and that may be why Nash started throwing in the extra volume that week (yes?).  But for long term health and progress I think a better measure is where you stand the week before every deload.

 

Respect the deload.  It's your friend.

kingzlo said:

Nash, I could be wrong with saying this, but you may be burning your muscles out (or overtraining) in doing that on deload week.  Isn't deload week similar to taking time off for the body to rest after all the 'intense work' put upon it, especially after Mastery week?

 

EVERYONE, throw your opinions out on this one.  My thought was more on how the body needs to recover.  This was from thoughts back when I was lifting weights by taking a week off from training, periodically.  But in this case, it would be to go 'average' training with the use of deload week (as the intensity is brung down a few notches).

 

Thinking further, mention of deloading was talked about further somewhere (forum(s) / podcast(s) / current (and/or) past intro article / etc. (I'm not sure where)).  Links would be great to go through if anyone has any to post.  (looks like I got some homework to do as well)

 

Hi Kingzlo,

 

I haven't gotten to a deload week on the new plan yet. I started the current plan 2 weeks ago. I usually do a couple of months in before evaluating how things are going.

 

Bob,

 

The idea is on deload week do more or less the same number of reps, but concentrated in two sets. The reasoning behind that is I'm never working my endurance side of things. If this leads to burnout, then maybe then next plan would be to alternate weeks between strength and endurance like you did.

 

I've been on this for nearly 2 years. I did things as prescribed for at least a year. It's time for experimentation.

 

-Nash

At times with my deload I have kept the rep number high and reduced the sets. It has worked well with certain exercises and I have felt the benefit of the reduced volume. The template is a framework that at times will need tweaking depending on the person and exercise. I only tweak the template if I feel like I have not made any improvement after 2-3 cycles.

I've been on this for nearly 2 years. I did things as prescribed for at least a year. It's time for experimentation.

 

-Nash

Holy Hell, that's a long time. I think what would be a good idea would be to add more reps in your workout. You're on 5x10 now, Id add an additional set where you max. When you have 6x10, then you could go to 5x12, and then add another set and repeat the process until you have 6x12 and then go to 5x15. I'd do this 3 times a week and another 2-3 days you would do half total volume of that, so 3x10.

Mark Collins said:

At times with my deload I have kept the rep number high and reduced the sets. It has worked well with certain exercises and I have felt the benefit of the reduced volume. The template is a framework that at times will need tweaking depending on the person and exercise. I only tweak the template if I feel like I have not made any improvement after 2-3 cycles.

definitely this could be a good way. both method have the same volume (total number of reps) so doing 4x4 on the last week and deload with 4x2 or 2x4 has the same volume. you can experiment on yourself.

Nash said:

I've found only two ways to increase reps. Either break form or hold at the top for a few seconds. If my current plan doesn't work, on my next one, I might incorporate the top holds.

...

>So I started training pullups twice a week, one day dedicated to strength, the other day dedicated to endurance.  The first day I would do sets of 2 or 3 reps using added weight, and try to increase the weight every week.

 

With my current plan I'm going for high reps only during deload weeks. Go crazy on reps for 2 sets. I'm not sure if this going to be enough (once/month). I might need to increase it.

Nash, a few ideas:

Comparing your vid side by side with the course video: He pauses at the top, you seem to be constantly in motion compared to him. Take a half a second at the top of each rep, as per the vid.

You haven't mentioned whether you actually get all reps in when you fail a set. Above, you said you went 10, 10, 10, 10, 7. Does this mean you did 47 instead of 50 reps that day? I can relate as far as not accepting sub-mastery form, but take a couple breaths and knock out those last reps!! You're more likely to "master" next week's workout if you don't deprive yourself of this week's full # of reps.

 

Lastly, regarding the pull-up routine, coach has mentioned several times in the podcast that he discourages increasing load AND reps simultaneously.

 

I know I sound critical, but this thread actually inspired me to re-master PE1, as my form was sub-mastery despite that I was on PE2 week 10!

 

kingzlo said:

Nash, I could be wrong with saying this, but you may be burning your muscles out (or overtraining) in doing that on deload week.  Isn't deload week similar to taking time off for the body to rest after all the 'intense work' put upon it, especially after Mastery week?

 

EVERYONE, throw your opinions out on this one.  My thought was more on how the body needs to recover.  This was from thoughts back when I was lifting weights by taking a week off from training, periodically.  But in this case, it would be to go 'average' training with the use of deload week (as the intensity is brung down a few notches).

 

Thinking further, mention of deloading was talked about further somewhere (forum(s) / podcast(s) / current (and/or) past intro article / etc. (I'm not sure where)).  Links would be great to go through if anyone has any to post.  (looks like I got some homework to do as well)

Regarding deload week, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it's purpose to allow the connective tissue time to recover? Which is why it's EVERY fourth week regardless of whether you fail to progress or not. If that's the case, it's overdoing it to "blast" yourself out during that week, imho. Kingzlo, I think I picked this tidbit up from the podcasts, as well.

I've read the whole thing... Just never realized that it takes some people so long to perform push-ups

Doing 5 sets of 15 pushups isn't the issue. It's doing 5 sets of 15 pushups, with PPT and scapular protraction that is. The proper form required is pretty atypical in today's world -- sadly. Riding the subway every day in NYC, I can tell how many people I notice have rounded shoulders and slouch forward (which makes it that much harder to engage the scapulae because they're basically inactive every day, all day, for most people's lives).