My Current Focus: HBP/PE2

kingzlo said:

Some mention that F7 is for when executing lower rep range vs. endurance.  Not sure if they meant for Foundation 2, 3, and/or 4.

I strongly disagree with this idea. Before purchasing and starting Foundation 1 about 5 months ago, I was doing simple bodyweight training at home, parks etc. and I was purely strength trainee so this transition to endurance work on F1 has been a really hard journey. But a week ago, something strange happened. I was doing over and over again some of the elements (particulary FL PE2, MN PE3, HBP PE1 (but placing hands lower than required - about knee height) and RC PE1) for quite some time now but the last week I managed to go through them without failure and now I'm finishing HBP, RC, SL, sPL and I'm looking forward to finally master FL PE2, MN PE3 and SLS PE4 the next cycle. So I think you just need to work all 7 elements until you can handle all of them in a single workout. It is possible. And now I feel this possitive vibe that I can master F1 really soon and some elements even before the autumn.

Vytautas Pilkauskas said:

I strongly disagree with this idea. Before purchasing and starting Foundation 1 about 5 months ago, I was doing simple bodyweight training at home, parks etc. and I was purely strength trainee so this transition to endurance work on F1 has been a really hard journey. But a week ago, something strange happened. I was doing over and over again some of the elements (particulary FL PE2, MN PE3, HBP PE1 (but placing hands lower than required - about knee height) and RC PE1) for quite some time now but the last week I managed to go through them without failure and now I'm finishing HBP, RC, SL, sPL and I'm looking forward to finally master FL PE2, MN PE3 and SLS PE4 the next cycle. So I think you just need to work all 7 elements until you can handle all of them in a single workout. It is possible. And now I feel this possitive vibe that I can master F1 really soon and some elements even before the autumn.

The thing about it, I can handle all 7 elements.  I guess the issue was my minor sprain around my left arm that got me thinking to split the routine.  I've decided to stick with F7 after all, as I've been doing this week (Mon and Thurs).  

As for mastering F1 before autumn, I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Depending how long you have been working out with gymnastic bodies (and I don't know your "calisthenic" background), you will see that it takes quite some time to Master some of these routines.  Prepare to be humbled (I know I have and LOVE it), within that positive vibe.  

kingzlo said:

The thing about it, I can handle all 7 elements.  I guess the issue was my minor sprain around my left arm that got me thinking to split the routine.  I've decided to stick with F7 after all, as I've been doing this week (Mon and Thurs).  

 

As for mastering F1 before autumn, I'm not sure what you mean by that.  Depending how long you have been working out with gymnastic bodies (and I don't know your "calisthenic" background), you will see that it takes quite some time to Master some of these routines.  Prepare to be humbled (I know I have and LOVE it), within that positive vibe.  

Oh, I must have missed that part about sprain, my apologies. In this case, this might be a better approach to treat an injury, I don't really know.

I meant that there's a couple of elements that I need one or two exercises to master of its' series. They are: RC (I did various rows for a long time, even though I mastered Hinge Rows a week ago, I warm up with elevated rows or chin ups/pull ups for that one because I never did anything like HR before. I also play with Bulgarian Rows and Chin Hang from time to time). The other one is SLS. While I do need to work on my achiles, I see no problems doing SLS exercises and getting better at mobility and strength simultaneously. So I'm hoping to master Bulgarian Rows, Chin Hang, Hawaiian Squats, 1/2 HLL and nHLL by the end of a summer (I don't quite need a lot of pike work). After that, why wait to get F2? Unless there will appear a wide gap between some elements, I am going to need to work on that gap (hopefully not). I would like to get my all elements to F2 by the end of this year

I was getting pretty strong these days before GB courses. Didn't work much on mobility except shoulders and pike stretch, though. Did pull ups and dips in a L-Sit, box HeSPU, and single leg squats mostly.

Vytautas Pilkauskas said:

Oh, I must have missed that part about sprain, my apologies. In this case, this might be a better approach to treat an injury, I don't really know.

I meant that there's a couple of elements that I need one or two exercises to master of its' series. They are: RC (I did various rows for a long time, even though I mastered Hinge Rows a week ago, I warm up with elevated rows or chin ups/pull ups for that one because I never did anything like HR before. I also play with Bulgarian Rows and Chin Hang from time to time). The other one is SLS. While I do need to work on my achiles, I see no problems doing SLS exercises and getting better at mobility and strength simultaneously. So I'm hoping to master Bulgarian Rows, Chin Hang, Hawaiian Squats, 1/2 HLL and nHLL by the end of a summer (I don't quite need a lot of pike work). After that, why wait to get F2? Unless there will appear a wide gap between some elements, I am going to need to work on that gap (hopefully not). I would like to get my all elements to F2 by the end of this year

I was getting pretty strong these days before GB courses. Didn't work much on mobility except shoulders and pike stretch, though. Did pull ups and dips in a L-Sit, box HeSPU, and single leg squats mostly.

First thing that came to mind...  How's your form?  Have you posted form checks to see where you really stand so far?  I did that and got some great feedback upon where I should keep going forward, fall back a little, or stay at a child's place (the routine video'd).  The time I was thinking was during mastery to see if you really mastered it and to get futher feedback.  I'm thinking about that week now and my present state...

Yes, there are my videos on this forum and I appreciate every feedback and advice I get, re-film my form and see things that were pointed out clearly, have two or more recordings to compare and make adjustments. There are also many other posts with questions I have, but they are already answered so all I need to check is if my form follows already given advices and standards. I compare my videos to others this way and look for similarities. If I don't find them, I post a video. I found out that usually faults are more or less the same in every exercise. I am no hurry person and I will surely post every other exercise (or look up answered treads to collect information and check if I need to apply anything) just in case.

I also record every workout and then I take notes to my training log, then the next day I read previous two days notes and make those adjustments.

2 Max sets (week 4/4): 25r and 24r.

-Nash

Yesterday did week 1/4: 5x10r

Broke record of 4x12 (48 reps vs. 50 reps), but today my shoulders and chest are sore and fatigued.  I feel like my HS workout tonight will be unproductive.

I'm going to revise the schedule in such a way that my shoulders will have enough time to rest between workouts. I can't do F7 days because I don't have enough energy for that specially when things are at Block 3 or end of Block 2. The schedule will have to work around that limitation as well.

Will report back with new schedule!

-Nash

Nash, have you tried going into berzerk eating mode? That can also be a strategy for breaking plateaus...

Alright! Progress is happening! That's what we like to see.

I've been thinking a lot about this and I think the path you're on now is a good one (I'm doing it myself now, just finished with 5x9), although there's one added element I'll suggest.

Today's soreness suggests you haven't yet built the capacity to get to 60 reps, and I think that's something to be addressed in your programming so you don't plateau again.  My suggestion is to progress the total reps each week, even if it means adding sets.  Since you're trying to add one rep to each set, that's an additional 5 reps each week.  Let's say next week you miss on 5x11 (ok, we KNOW that's not going to happen, but bear with me).  Let's say you get 11,11,11,11,7.  Throw in a sixth set of at least 4 so that you start getting used to the volume.  And of course, strict form always and no working to failure.  And don't skip the deload.

If you get to 60 reps but still can't get 5x15, keeping adding reps, possibly moving to a seventh set.  Five additional reps every week.  This way you're always asking your body to adapt to a greater challenge.  Thoughts?

For me personally the difficulty with this approach is that if I move too fast my tendonitis flares up, forcing me to take extra rest days, so I have to constantly monitor my recovery and balance my progress accordingly.  I'll still try to add five reps per week, but some weeks might be less.  SInce you're sore today you'll want to keep an eye on things as well.  Back off if recovery slows down too much.

BTW, part of the plan was half-volume on off days.  How's that going for you?  It's been a bit of a struggle for me as I find I need the time to recover.  I'm think I'm settling into doing the half-volume on every day except push-up days and the day after.  But we'll see.

BobH said:

Alright! Progress is happening! That's what we like to see.

I've been thinking a lot about this and I think the path you're on now is a good one (I'm doing it myself now, just finished with 5x9), although there's one added element I'll suggest.

Today's soreness suggests you haven't yet built the capacity to get to 60 reps, and I think that's something to be addressed in your programming so you don't plateau again. My suggestion is to progress the total reps each week, even if it means adding sets. Since you're trying to add one rep to each set, that's an additional 5 reps each week. Let's say next week you miss on 5x11 (ok, we KNOW that's not going to happen, but bear with me). Let's say you get 11,11,11,11,7. Throw in a sixth set of at least 4 so that you start getting used to the volume. And of course, strict form always and no working to failure. And don't skip the deload.

If you get to 60 reps but still can't get 5x15, keeping adding reps, possibly moving to a seventh set. Five additional reps every week. This way you're always asking your body to adapt to a greater challenge. Thoughts?

For me personally the difficulty with this approach is that if I move too fast my tendonitis flares up, forcing me to take extra rest days, so I have to constantly monitor my recovery and balance my progress accordingly. I'll still try to add five reps per week, but some weeks might be less. SInce you're sore today you'll want to keep an eye on things as well. Back off if recovery slows down too much.

BTW, part of the plan was half-volume on off days. How's that going for you? It's been a bit of a struggle for me as I find I need the time to recover. I'm think I'm settling into doing the half-volume on every day except push-up days and the day after. But we'll see.

Good point, but I think five extra reps per week is unsustainable of you're already struggling with the load. One rep extra per week should be doable for anyone, without overloading to the point of tendonitis.

Ravn said:

Good point, but I think five extra reps per week is unsustainable of you're already struggling with the load. One rep extra per week should be doable for anyone, without overloading to the point of tendonitis.

I agree with Ravn.  Remember, we are aiming to strengthen our joints, not cause damage.  

I'm recalling a podcast where Coach mentioned about going through 'maintenance'.  I think he compared that with weightlifting the same amount of weight for a LONG time and gradually moving up with some plates.  It's been a while since I last listened, so I can't tell you which Podcast, but it is definitely worth listening to, even if for 2nd or 3rd time (especially if you didn't have pen and paper handy to take notes).

BobH said:

If you get to 60 reps but still can't get 5x15, keeping adding reps, possibly moving to a seventh set.  Five additional reps every week.  This way you're always asking your body to adapt to a greater challenge.  Thoughts?

I've gone there before, in the middle of my journey with HBP/PE2, a great pump and at the time might've been well energized to add additional set(s).  But currently, since I plateaued, I went TUT (time under tension), which helped my shoulder joints to not pinch (or whatever from minor injury from Crossfit) while doing the mobility.  Nowadays I don't feel that pinch where the mobility movement is smooth.  

Also recently rotated my hands, same rotation for HBP/PE3 (but in regular push up position (temporarily due to it being a bit harder)) and I felt different angle of pressure on my shoulders and chest (in a good way), but it was just as hard as this is Mastery week for me.  I manage getting 5 by 15, but I have to do a pause (like 5 sec or less) before finishing the remainder (ex. 1st set full 15reps, 2nd set @ 12 reps pause then remainders, 3rd set @ maybe 10 pause and finish remainders, etc).  Similar to the past, but this time my left shoulder is not feeling any discomfort.

Just to be clear, going from 5x10 to 5x11 is an increase of 5 reps per week.  That's the plan that was suggest and that Nash (and I) are now following.  All I'm saying is to keep that going, even if you can't complete a set.  Do you guys think that is too much?

I did 5x9 last week, now I just finished my 2nd day of 5x10.  I haven't missed yet, but I feel like that's coming pretty soon.  I'm still wondering what I'll do if it happens.

kingzlo said:

I've gone there before, in the middle of my journey with HBP/PE2, a great pump and at the time might've been well energized to add additional set(s).  But currently, since I plateaued, I went TUT (time under tension), which helped my shoulder joints to not pinch (or whatever from minor injury from Crossfit) while doing the mobility.  Nowadays I don't feel that pinch where the mobility movement is smooth.  

I forgot to mention (although I did mention periodically when it comes to TUT) is when going slow in that sense, you will feel it in your joints as well as muscles.  That is why I did it within the whole of Block 1 (yes I went all the way backwards to move forward), and TUT would die out during higher reps (Block 2 Week 2 @ 9 reps (at least for me)). 

BobH said:

Just to be clear, going from 5x10 to 5x11 is an increase of 5 reps per week.  That's the plan that was suggest and that Nash (and I) are now following.  All I'm saying is to keep that going, even if you can't complete a set.  Do you guys think that is too much?

 

I did 5x9 last week, now I just finished my 2nd day of 5x10.  I haven't missed yet, but I feel like that's coming pretty soon.  I'm still wondering what I'll do if it happens.

With that I will say "don't forget to keep the deload weeks in tact."  In your example, I'd go for Block 2 week 8 (5 x 5) when the end of mini cycle comes, in both cases (paragraphs).

Actually, I was mistaken when I said one rep per week. What I meant was one extra rep per workout. It worked well for me.

Week 2/4: 12r, 11r, 11r, 11r, 11r

Intention was to do 11x5, but accidentally did 12 on my first set. Lat rep of last set was shaky, so I'm calling it 55! Another record.

What changed?

Last week I did F7 (3day split) and 1 HS day. So 4 days of working out. I'm not sure if this helped, but I really hate only doing 1HS day. Maybe it's irrational hatred, but I feel like I wouldn't progress much with 1 day HS/week.

-Nash

Nash said:

Week 2/4: 12r, 11r, 11r, 11r, 11r

 

Intention was to do 11x5, but accidentally did 12 on my first set. Lat rep of last set was shaky, so I'm calling it 55! Another record.

 

What changed?

 

Last week I did F7 (3day split) and 1 HS day. So 4 days of working out. I'm not sure if this helped, but I really hate only doing 1HS day. Maybe it's irrational hatred, but I feel like I wouldn't progress much with 1 day HS/week.

 

 

-Nash

Home stretch!

Test it out to see how fast you progress before switching.

Once the push ups are behind you then add H1 back to two days a week then come the pseudo planche push ups!

I'm on the free standing handstand pushups, and the weighted dislocates definitely interfere with HeSPU. I need a full day of rest to be able to do HeSPU properly.

So I challenged Nash to a "race to the finish". Loser pays for food when he makes it to Austin. I've been going back and forth between blocks 2 and 3 for a while. Just started block 3: 12,12,12,12. Surprisingly solid, I've never nailed 4x12 like this before. Good luck Nash

Jason Dupree said:

So I challenged Nash to a "race to the finish". Loser pays for food when he makes it to Austin. I've been going back and forth between blocks 2 and 3 for a while. Just started block 3: 12,12,12,12. Surprisingly solid, I've never nailed 4x12 like this before. Good luck Nash

Sometimes it just needs the *right* motivation Keep it up guys!

Jason Dupree said:

So I challenged Nash to a "race to the finish". Loser pays for food when he makes it to Austin. I've been going back and forth between blocks 2 and 3 for a while. Just started block 3: 12,12,12,12. Surprisingly solid, I've never nailed 4x12 like this before. Good luck Nash

Video or it didn't happen.

-Nash

Haha I only filmed 2 sets to check form. I have another workout Thursday though.