This forum is archived information and is no longer active.
Started by Nash, February 20, 2015 · 434 Replies · 25,461 Views
Let your scapulae take care of themselves, hold a rigid body, and just do a @&£;!?£@&:?!;:£&@:?£;(&£@&£/?!?!£&£@;/ press-up!
:-)))
I'm sure Coach never even mentioned the P and D words to his youngest charges, but I have been known to be very wrong at times :-)
Well, if that's the case. Guess it's on to HBP/PE3 in the next cycle then.
Protracto-Paranoid is a great term 
.
I have been hearing lots of different information about the form used in this, others say 'straight' others say hollow, i have used hollow form and i have been progressing absolutely great!
I've been doing them with PPT and a hollow chest and full protraction at the top. Doing them now with "straight" body and no protraction, makes them easier. But I think you DON'T have to do it the hard way.
Hollow Man said:I've been doing them with PPT and a hollow chest and full protraction at the top. Doing them now with "straight" body and no protraction, makes them easier. But I think you DON'T have to do it the hard way.
it doesn't make sense to me to have pe2 done straight and pe3 done hollow lol. Way more logical to do all the hbp/pe's with the hollow body position!
So I understand that if the pushups are done with hollow body, the only part of the body touching the floor at the bottom of the movement should be the chest, am I right?
and toes 
Well. That was rather clear. So minimal obsessiveness over lacking lean and protraction on PE2, BUT it necessitates normal protraction at the top of HBP/PE2; ppt and scapulae depression throughout (life); chest to floor. That correct?
I had been doing chin/nose to floor this go around on PE2 (as I had also been focusing on excessive protraction -- as noted), but chest to floor is the preference, eh? Will do. Thanks for the clarification. Who know that those videos and "(1), (2)" cues on each Foundation movement could be interpreted so many ways. I bet Coach Sommer didn't foresee it 
Zach Armijo said:Of course you will be hollow and you most certainly better be protracted at the top. Why the hell would you do it any other way? A weak body will find a way to cheat to get what it wants, and the results will be just that... Weak.
You are correct Xavier, your chest should come in contact with the ground. It's just proper full ROM after all.
Yeah, but some people are getting chest developement with this movement, it shouldn't occur if you are hollow right? Atleast my chest is not getting almost any stimulation out of this lol
Zach Armijo said:How does being hollow negate chest activation? The chest will be getting some but not a lot compared to triceps and delts with elbows back.
The analysis of this is mind boggling. It's a pushup. To make it crystal clear:
-be hollow (ppt goes without saying. How else do you achieve it?)
-full protraction at the top.
-elbows come back, chest to the floor.
-don't worry about lean, there will be backwards travel.
-let the scapula do what they will naturally. Most certainly not elevation however.
-just do a push up.
-do more push ups.
I can check all points above except the last one.
cry tiem ;_;
Lol. Thanks Zach. Clarified. I need to remember that each progression is its stand-alone piece and not cumulative of the previous move (though previous move mastery facilitates the greater strength and mobility recruitments of later moves). Anyways, I had initially thought that the scapulae needed greater focus. I'll finish the cycle and progress to where I was before. Thanks.
OK, after reviewing this, I'm considering the plan below for moving forward. Please let me know if this doesn't make sense:
Maybe you should just rest on your non-pushup days, no? I've found that sticking with my last completed number of sets x reps for cycles until I get it, has worked. It's tedious, and stubborn, and frustrating, but it's worked.
Best of luck to you Nash.
If that plan doesn't workout, I suggest trying something like this:
Week 1: 10,10,10,10,10
Week 2: 11,10,10,10,10
Week 3: 11,11,10,10,10 etc
This is my plan moving forward, starting at 5x14, since I can do 5x14, but always end up at about 15,15,15,15, 8-10
Zach Armijo said:How does being hollow negate chest activation? The chest will be getting some but not a lot compared to triceps and delts with elbows back.
The analysis of this is mind boggling. It's a pushup. To make it crystal clear:
-be hollow (ppt goes without saying. How else do you achieve it?)
-full protraction at the top.
-elbows come back, chest to the floor.
-don't worry about lean, there will be backwards travel.
-let the scapula do what they will naturally. Most certainly not elevation however.
-just do a push up.
-do more push ups.
Amen to that. Couldn't be any clearer. Thank you very much, Zach Armijo.
maybe do less work for some time instead of more pushups ? Like 1 week of deload, followed with a week of previous mastery static hold at the bottom , then a week of slow negatives, then previous progression mastery , deload once more and then get back to where you were ?
I am currently following that plan to master HBP/PE3. It also helps me concentrate more on sPL progression, that is I believe have to be pre requirement for HBP/PE3.
Daniel Taylor-Shaut said:Maybe you should just rest on your non-pushup days, no? I've found that sticking with my last completed number of sets x reps for cycles until I get it, has worked. It's tedious, and stubborn, and frustrating, but it's worked.
Hey Daniel, in one thought, I would've agreed with resting on non-pushup days, but it would seem like Nash has the energy to execute what he states. I've noticed that I've generated more energy myself where I'm able to crank out more routines on off days, just to get my body tired out (sometimes too much energy) and I get how the athletes are able to do their workout routines on a daily and for lengths of hours on end. Your body will tell you when that time comes to go that route, take your time and it will happen. Again, take your time, otherwise you may go through overtraining, which will hinder progression.
Samo said:maybe do less work for some time instead of more pushups ? Like 1 week of deload, followed with a week of previous mastery static hold at the bottom , then a week of slow negatives, then previous progression mastery , deload once more and then get back to where you were ?
I am currently following that plan to master HBP/PE3. It also helps me concentrate more on sPL progression, that is I believe have to be pre requirement for HBP/PE3.
I see how HBP/PE3 and sPL intertwine with each other, although I'm still on HBP/PE2. As I have progressed to the sPL/SE1, I've been frustrated with that routine, at the beginning, and have asked around the forum about it. From my understanding, I realized that this is all, in a sense a push routine, both static and dynamic, even the HS (Handstand) Series Courses. It dawned on me this morning, when I woke up and was thinking/writing/doing, that getting into the HS/PE2 (headstand), with the head on the ground, with hands, and the legs not going all the way to the top, BUT at the halfway mark (and the legs are going away from the body, as I try to hold it (energy starts to form) will help with the progression of the Mobility of sPL/SE1 routine and the actual routine itself (future reference for you all, so take notes (although will be rewritten where this portion belongs).
The above may have been a little off subject, but it is not really. They all intertwine as one and as Samo mentioned, it does help with further concentration, even when not getting into it (mental awareness). Oh, and I realized that the FORM CHECK definitely helps for I looked at my form and being an absolute beginner with sPL/SE1, for now, I had to laugh at myself with the video (being my second attempt (the first attempt was very frustrating), but then seeing it myself actually gave me the better perspective visually. So it is best with getting others opinions, which is a plus, and your own opinion for you are what you eat (in this sense, with your personal workout).
NOTE: The VIDEO of sPL/SE1, is in Foundation 2 for those who are at that level (this is my only level of strength there, for now). Looking forward to breaking this plateau of HBP/PE2 to go further with HS/PE3. And my talk on HS/PE2 is in the Handstand Series Course. BOTH HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.
Heres my 2 cents,
To me it seems like pushups aren't effectively addressing whatever weaknesses you have. Find the weaknesses and fix them with something that works. Be pragmatic not dogmatic about it. If something doesn't work, try something else. Don't just do the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome.
So we have to have a hollow body ( Glutes squeezed (PPT) and be protracted at the top (like a sPL/PE1 movement)) when we do HBP/PE2, it does not look like the course video has that?
PPT is not really required for HBP/PE2 if you look at the video. HBP/PE2 top position is very clearly different from sPL/PE3 (Plank) position. Nevertheless, HBP/PE3 top position is the same as sPL/PE5 (Planche Lean).
So the purpose of adding PPT and protraction for HBP/PE2 is to make the exercise harder in order to make HBP/PE3 Easier?
with ppt is all easier. for me. full control over your movement in pushup
You down with ppt? Yeah, you know me.
Wow, seriously long and involved thread. I'll share what worked for me, even though it sort of contradicts Zach's good advice above.
I too was stuck at 5x15. For me the key was to not keep trying @ 5x15, but to go beyond, meaning that I got hbp workouts looking like this: 17-16-14-9-7.
Once the first couple of sets got to the 19 or 18 range, and the total amount of reps exceeded 75 in five sets, doing mastery was *almost* easy.
Give it a try, it may work... Good luck!