Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Afiya Zia

Back Lever Curls vs. Front Lever Rows vs. Curls

Recommended Posts

Afiya Zia

Just wondering about some of the harder bent arm conditioning exercises on the rings. I'm not yet at the level where I can do these, except curls, which I somehow did one day to show off in front of friends :P the topic is just me wondering which exercise is working what and in which way, and whether some are more effective than others.

As far as I know, each of these exercises are conditioning the following muscles:

Curls: Chest, Biceps, Anterior Deltoids, lats?

FL Rows: Lats, Posterior Deltoids, Biceps, Middle and Lower Traps and Rhomboids

BL Curls: Chest, Anterior Deltoids, Biceps, middle back musculature?

Anyways, just something I was thinking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeff Walker

Never heard of BL curls, do you have an example?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alexander Svensson

Never heard of BL curls, do you have an example?

I believe they are in BtGB if you have it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ralph Palutke

i guess bl curls would be similiar to the beginning phase of pelicans.

in other words: they are brutally hard, harder than the other elements you've named.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Afiya Zia

A BL Curl is bending the elbows from a BL. The more that I think about it, the harder it seems compared to the other two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Douglas

A BL Curl is bending the elbows from a BL. The more that I think about it, the harder it seems compared to the other two.

Much harder than curl to shoulderstand IME.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeff Walker

Much harder than curl to shoulderstand IME.

IS that the beg of an Inverted Muscleup or elevator?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Douglas

IS that the beg of an Inverted Muscleup or elevator?

Yes, which is then completed by pushing up from shoulderstand to handstand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Naterman

Yes, which is then completed by pushing up from shoulderstand to handstand.

My opinion: BL curls are not harder than the first half of a reverse MU, assuming we're talking about the foot-supported version. If we're not talking about foot supported, we're talking about pelicans and that's a whole different ball game.

 

My reasoning: I have done those BL curls in front of people at the seminar two years ago, Desi remembers. She could do them too. I could not do the first half of reverse MU. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Douglas

My opinion: BL curls are not harder than the first half of a reverse MU, assuming we're talking about the foot-supported version. If we're not talking about foot supported, we're talking about pelicans and that's a whole different ball game.

 

My reasoning: I have done those BL curls in front of people at the seminar two years ago, Desi remembers. She could do them too. I could not do the first half of reverse MU. 

Well, I'd visualised it without support (and thus nuts), but I stand corrected.

My experience is based on the negatives, I can't curl all the way up to shoulderstand or perform Ians :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Li

BL curls (unsupported) and supinated grip BL pull-ups are more difficult than the inverted curls (bottom half of the inverted MU).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jeff Walker

Well, I'd visualised it without support (and thus nuts), but I stand corrected.

My experience is based on the negatives, I can't curl all the way up to shoulderstand or perform Ians :(

 

Well, I'd visualised it without support (and thus nuts), but I stand corrected.

My experience is based on the negatives, I can't curl all the way up to shoulderstand or perform Ians :(

Whats an Ian?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Douglas

Whats an Ian?

Back lever curl to Korean dip on a bar. Sort of a muscle up with hands behind you.

Before you ask, I've only seen it unspotted on youtube once, can't remember the video, but it was part of a larger compilation with an unhelpfully non-descriptive name.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Slocum

My opinion: BL curls are not harder than the first half of a reverse MU, assuming we're talking about the foot-supported version. If we're not talking about foot supported, we're talking about pelicans and that's a whole different ball game.

 

My reasoning: I have done those BL curls in front of people at the seminar two years ago, Desi remembers. She could do them too. I could not do the first half of reverse MU.

Just my personal opinion on terminology, but if it's done with a support, I'd call it a supported back lever curl. A back lever curl would start from a back lever, i.e. the first half of a pelican.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Li

Ians are insanely difficult! Not even Coach's boys can do them unspotted. Some of the Russian and Ukrainian street workout athletes can do them, but I haven't seen a completely full lay one before. There's also the German hang MU which is also very difficult.

 

A back lever curl would start from a back lever, i.e. the first half of a pelican.

Wouldn't the first half of the pelican actually be a supinated grip BL pull-up? BL curls are shown to be a multiplanar curling exercise from BL to the bottom of a dip or Korean dip in BTGB. They're both very similar though, I think supinated grip BL pull-up may be slightly harder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Slocum

Wouldn't the first half of the pelican actually be a supinated grip BL pull-up? BL curls are shown to be a multiplanar curling exercise from BL to the bottom of a dip or Korean dip in BTGB. They're both very similar though, I think supinated grip BL pull-up may be slightly harder.

Yeah that's a reasonable argument.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alessandro Mainente

Joshua it's right. i have reverse mu starting from 130° of elbows flexion, and supported back lever curl are easier compared to this exercises. and i don't want to talk about the beginning part of elevator, the difference is bigger.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Li

Just wondering guys, but how much harder will a BL curl or supinated grip BL pull-up be compared to the inverted curl (bottom half of elevator)? 

 

Edit: Oh and I forgot, how would a German hang curl compare to those?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Joshua Slocum

Just wondering guys, but how much harder will a BL curl or supinated grip BL pull-up be compared to the inverted curl (bottom half of elevator)? 

 

Edit: Oh and I forgot, how would a German hang curl compare to those?

The BL pullup would be about 25.35% harder than the BL curl, +/- .04% depending on your particular anthromorphism, with an additional variance of up to +/-1% based on the strength of the Coriolis effect (the strength of the effect depends on your lattitude and which way you're facing; people in the tropics facing east/west will have a more difficult time with the BL pull-up). The inverted curl is similar to the back-lever curl, except that neurologically speaking it is less complex because it isolates the biceps more strongly; the additional electrodynamic load of having to coordinate the biceps with the anterior and posterior muscle chains is much more stressful on the somatic nervous system because of the increased need for bandwidth in neural feedback processes. I would estimate that this results in a jump in difficulty around 35.645%, although that figure is merely based on the median distribution of muscle-fiber composition among adult gymnasts, so again expect there to be some variance within the general population.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Li

Thanks for the detailed info! 

 

Coach did put the BL curls as harder than the inverted curl though. Someone told me the German hang curl was easier than the full lay BL curl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jon Douglas

 your particular anthromorphism,

the Coriolis effect (the strength of the effect depends on your lattitude and which way you're facing; people in the tropics facing east/west will have a more difficult time with the BL pull-up).

 

Heh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Brian Li

Would the German hang curl have about the same difficulty on the biceps as the inverted curl since they are both upright?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Afiya Zia

German Hang Curls are tough for me supported, but Inverted Curls in a tuck or straddle are easy enough. Once I overcome my fear of being upside down (I know, shut up :P ), then full-lay won't be a problem either.

But that's just me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Parth Rajguru

Remember, the biceps are not exclusively elbow flexors. Passive insufficiency applies here: the further the stretch, the harder it becomes. Also, there are 4 elbow flexors that need to be accounted for in these advanced bent arm pulling elements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×

Important Information

Please review our Privacy Policy at Privacy Policy before using the forums.