What's the problem with doing as many reps as you can?

[griffdrc]

you start to get into the aerobic energy pathways... is running a mile going to make you big and buff? if you want to understand the mechanisms get a book on exercise physiology and strength training... its too mich info to put in a forum post...

[Coach Sommer]

Reps, Reps and More Reps?

The answer is quite simple actually. If you would like to focus on building strength endurance, then simply continue increasing reps. If you would like to continue to develop maximal strength, then it will be necessary to progress onward to more challenging, leverage disadvantaged movements utilizing lower repetitions.

Also, please note that this is NOT a bodybuilding site; where size is the first and foremost goal. I have no interest in the pursuit of size in and of itself; when the pursuit of size is separated from increases in functional strength. For my athletes, their increases muscularity and size are solely a secondary result of increasing their maximal strength levels.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Saito]

Reps, Reps and More Reps?

The answer is quite simple actually. If you would like to focus on building strength endurance, then simply continue increasing reps. If you would like to continue to develop maximal strength, then it will be necessary to progress onward to more challenging, leverage disadvantaged movements utilizing lower repetitions.

Also, please note that this is NOT a bodybuilding site; where size is the first and foremost goal. I have no interest in the pursuit of size in and of itself; when the pursuit of size is separated from increases in functional strength. For my athletes, their increases muscularity and size are solely a secondary result of increasing their maximal strength levels.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

Alright Coach, thanks a lot, that's kind of what i wanted to hear. My primary goal is of course not only size gain and appearence, but to have a strong body to prevent injuries and be able to always perform 100% for my sport and anything else, but my sport ain't gymnastics, it's something else.

And I also just wondered if it was possible to always just keep increasing reps and still make size gains. These exercises I refer to are solely on parallel bars, and pushups; i don't have rings.

[thekyloe]

And I also just wondered if it was possible to always just keep increasing reps and still make size gains. These exercises I refer to are solely on parallel bars, and pushups; i don't have rings.

As coach said, increasing reps will lead to an increase in strength/endurance, not necessarily maximal strength, which is the primary motivator for growth in his athletes. Everyone's different, but generally, the greater the number of reps, the less you'll see in size gains. Think about it this way--would someone get big legs from doing a thousand bodyweight squats every day, or would they doing less than ten reps of a heavy weight?

[griffdrc]

the reason high reps does not lead to big gains in size is because it places more stress on type I muscle fibers... type I fibers are less capable of growth than type II fibers...

[gymrob]

Reps, Reps and More Reps?

The answer is quite simple actually. If you would like to focus on building strength endurance, then simply continue increasing reps. If you would like to continue to develop maximal strength, then it will be necessary to progress onward to more challenging, leverage disadvantaged movements utilizing lower repetitions.

Also, please note that this is NOT a bodybuilding site; where size is the first and foremost goal. I have no interest in the pursuit of size in and of itself; when the pursuit of size is separated from increases in functional strength. For my athletes, their increases muscularity and size are solely a secondary result of increasing their maximal strength levels.

Coach would you say that when your athletes or anyone else persues maximal strength in gymnastics training that primarily it is the nervous system that adapts and the hypertrophy as a side effect is mainly myofibrillar hypertrophy? The reason I say this is because from what I have read, the higher the intensity, the more involvement the nervous system has.

Thanks.

[Saito]

Man what a bummer. But all the exercises you do on parallel bars are many times much more difficult than normal squats, so i don't think they quite actually compare.

[rambo5501]

It is kind of a unspoken rule.

If you are getting stronger and stronger, you will gain muscle.

And doing many reps of something less than 20-25 reps more than around 8 will end up in more muscle gain than strength gain. While being considerable demanding and keeping good form.

[thekyloe]

Man what a bummer. But all the exercises you do on parallel bars are many times much more difficult than normal squats, so i don't think they quite actually compare.

However, your body responds to it in the same way--it's all exercise to your body, and the same general rules apply. All it knows is that the muscles are being strained, not in what way you're doing it, so it'll respond to the same kinds of rep schemes in the same way.

[Saito]

Hey there, i was away for awhile here, but now i'm back with some answers, so let me hit you with some knowledge:

Some days ago i began sending emails to the person who runs the calisthenicskingz channel in youtube, his code name is the Hitman, many of you are probably already familiar with who he is. So after many emails, i asked him what he thought about just increasing reps on all the exercises you can do on parallel bars, as well as not on them, if what "experts" said about doing that was true (they say that you don't gain much or any muscle size, and that you shouldn't do that, and well you know what else) so what he told me was:

"Yes you do get muscle gains, that is exactly how i did it and what i do, and that's how you get muscles without weights."

And we all know what kind of body does this mr. Hitman have right? So there it is. End of story.

[griffdrc]

i'm sorry our answers before weren't satisfactory but i'm glad you finally got the answer that you wanted to hear... if you read the scientific literature(not fitness mags or anecdotal stories) and learn the mechanisms i think you'll find that the method you are attempting is not the most efficient way of training for muscular hypertrophy... but if its the way you want to train good luck... you finally found your validation

[thekyloe]

Hey there, i was away for awhile here, but now i'm back with some answers, so let me hit you with some knowledge:

Some days ago i began sending emails to the person who runs the calisthenicskingz channel in youtube, his code name is the Hitman, many of you are probably already familiar with who he is. So after many emails, i asked him what he thought about just increasing reps on all the exercises you can do on parallel bars, as well as not on them, if what "experts" said about doing that was true (they say that you don't gain much or any muscle size, and that you shouldn't do that, and well you know what else) so what he told me was:

"Yes you do get muscle gains, that is exactly how i did it and what i do, and that's how you get muscles without weights."

And we all know what kind of body does this mr. Hitman have right? So there it is. End of story.

Well, we never said it was impossible, but just the most direct way of going about it--the way that you could probably expect gains in the most efficient manner, as griff said. While that's one example of using high rep schemes, I know plenty of people that have also tried high rep training for size and haven't gotten the results they were looking for--there are representations from all across the spectrum, including the outliers like Mr. Hitman.

[George Launchbury]

Hi Saito,

I wish you the best of luck with your progress in following The Hitman's guidelines. I say luck because you should bear in mind that some lucky few will gain size and strength no matter what they do. They could put on a pound of muscle just from reading Muscle & Fitness. They then present their gains as evidence that everyone can gain the same results. Which is totally understandable, but doesn't make it true. Take Bruce Lee for example - you can follow his advice and training all you like ...if you're not as genetically gifted as Bruce (and that includes his work ethic and thirst for knowledge), you'll never be like Bruce.

I would be surprised if he wasn't almost that size when he started doing the bodyweight stuff. Probably weight training prior to his interest in bodyweight exercise, since those who are proud of their physique/abilities tend to do only exercise that they can excel at. This is why a lot of people try BW exercises, but then lose interest quickly ...after being humbled by simple dips and pull-ups!

The fact that he's disagreeing with pretty much all the science available on the subject, based on 'what works for him', adds weight to the above. I'm not saying he doesn't work hard, deserve kudos for what he's achieved, or thanks for helping keep the world off their couch ...Just don't expect it to work for you simply because it's what you want to hear.

Regards,

George.

PS: Also note that he appears to be very strong, and that didn't come from doing the same thing with more and more reps - he worked on getting stronger too.

[Saito]

Good points, I know that no one is the same, and you're totally right about that. Of course someone else might get different results or nothing at all.

But as for me, my case then, i think that would really work for me. Like i said i haven't been consistently doing exercises because of something that happened, but when i used to do consistently for some days, i would really notice changes or gains then, but i didn't keep at it, don't know why.

And about Bruce Lee. When you talk about him been "gifted", are you referring to his drive or his thirst for knowledge as you said, or do you mean gifted in exercising and muscle gains? Because if it is the latter, i don't understand, because he was really skinny, hardly muscular.

[George Launchbury]

Bruce is (was) a great example of having the perfect attributes for your chosen discipline, and was extremely strong, powerful and fast for his weight. He didn't need to be big, and probably wouldn't have gotten that big (naturally) if he tried.

I personally wouldn't put him into the category of 'skinny' or 'hardly muscular', and I think you'd be surprised at the size many 'big' athletes actually were if they reduced their fat levels to his ...but then categories depend greatly on personal definition. For example, I wouldn't describe pro-bodybuilders as 'muscular' ...I would go more with something like 'muscle bound' ...or grotesque!

Horses for courses.

Regards,

George.

[Kamali Downey]

Saito,

You seem very young. How old are you?

If you want to gain size it really comes down to nutrtion and how much you are eating.

For all intensive purposes, you could continue to get stronger and stronger in the gym but if the calorie and protein requirements are not met, you will not grow.

Also, I've talked to hitman, and yes he indeed only does bodyweight exercises but you're still missing the point: he is very very strong. And he doesn't just do reps and reps and reps of basic exercises.

If you see in his videos he is doing planche pushups, weight vest planche pushups, handstand pushups, clapping handstand pushups, muscle ups, etc. etc.

He can do quite a few very advanced forms of the bodyweight movements and he can add weight and still do them in good form.

So looking at Hitman, you're not paying attention to how he got his results. STRENGTH. He is extremely STRONG, looks at his videos, you see what he is capable of.

Whether you train with weights or with out, like Coach Sommer said resistance is resistance it doesn't matter. You have to get stronger if you want to get bigger.

The guy who has the record for the most pullups done in 24 hrs, his body is not impressive at all. And he even said that training like that caused his max reps of pullups to go down, so he actually got weaker. The more reps you do, the more it actually breaks down your muscles essentially you are doing cardio.

Sure gymnastics style strength might take longer, but IMO I think it looks better and you will be very strong.

So the moral of the story, is you need to get strong, ALOT stronger.

You're naive if you think you can just continue to do reps and reps of the very basic exercises and continue to grow.

I suggest you read alot and learn more here.

[rambo5501]

Good points, I know that no one is the same, and you're totally right about that. Of course someone else might get different results or nothing at all.

But as for me, my case then, i think that would really work for me. Like i said i haven't been consistently doing exercises because of something that happened, but when i used to do consistently for some days, i would really notice changes or gains then, but i didn't keep at it, don't know why.

And about Bruce Lee. When you talk about him been "gifted", are you referring to his drive or his thirst for knowledge as you said, or do you mean gifted in exercising and muscle gains? Because if it is the latter, i don't understand, because he was really skinny, hardly muscular.

Saito don't get fooled. I'm willing to bet that Hitman was that same size or close to it before he started BW training.

[braindx]

I don't know why you guys are arguing.

If he doesn't believe you, let him try it for himself.

The best way to figure out what works FOR YOU is to experiment with different rep ranges and such.

If he's like most of us he'll find out that working progressively hard exercises below ~5 reps gives the best strength gains and decent muscular hypertrophy... which when done for a couple years leads to that "nice" gymanstics physique.

[John-Paul Potter]

And about Bruce Lee. When you talk about him been "gifted", are you referring to his drive or his thirst for knowledge as you said, or do you mean gifted in exercising and muscle gains? Because if it is the latter, i don't understand, because he was really skinny, hardly muscular.

I couldnt disagree more Bruce Lee was extremely muscular (see Way of the Dragon his lat spread is incredible http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The. ... .front.jpg ) and his body was perfectly gearded towards his requirements. Another great demonstartion of form following function.

Best regards JPP

[rambo5501]

And about Bruce Lee. When you talk about him been "gifted", are you referring to his drive or his thirst for knowledge as you said, or do you mean gifted in exercising and muscle gains? Because if it is the latter, i don't understand, because he was really skinny, hardly muscular.

I couldnt disagree more Bruce Lee was extremely muscular (see Way of the Dragon his lat spread is incredible http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:The. ... .front.jpg ) and his body was perfectly gearded towards his requirements. Another great demonstartion of form following function.

Best regards JPP

Bruce Lee was not "extremely muscular" he lived always in the 4% Bodyfat range. making your self look bigger than what you are. The man was like 130 pounds and he was 5'8-5'9 tall. If you are ripped you look bigger than what you really are.

[John-Paul Potter]

Bruce Lee was not "extremely muscular" he lived always in the 4% Bodyfat range. making your self look bigger than what you are. The man was like 130 pounds and he was 5'8-5'9 tall. If you are ripped you look bigger than what you really are.

Actually i would have to disagree, while he was around 130 and body fat was prob even less than 4% while filming Enter the Dragon for the majority of the time (as i had said see Way of the Dragon) he was nearer 160 prob body fat around 8%.

Then again we could just have differing opinions of muscularity as George said

For example, I wouldn't describe pro-bodybuilders as 'muscular' ...I would go more with something like 'muscle bound' ...or grotesque!

Horses for courses.

Best regards JPP

[Nic Scheelings]

I don't want to start an argument here, but in my opinion Bruce Lee's physique was incredible. His forearms were like a row of cables. Everything was functional and i have always found him a great inspiration.

[Coach Sommer]

Gentlemen,

We are NOT going to start a Bruce Lee discussion. In my opinion, the level of courtesy within them always deteriorates rapidly.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[StevenL]

good call.

[John-Paul Potter]

In agreement.

I would like to say however that Bruce Lee has always been a great inspiration to me (he is the reason i first started exercising) and not solely due to his physique but what he was able to do with it. Again a great example of form following function which i believe is very much in keeping with this forum.

Best regards JPP