What's the problem with doing as many reps as you can?

[Saito]

Hey there, I'm 19 and train solely with calisthenics, or 100% bodyweight exercises only, and well I'm not *too much* of a rookie, as I could do 15 dips or pulls or chins, even in succesions like in a routine, but I could say I'm getting started right now, because I took some months off all training.

So I have my own set of parallel bars outside my house, but they're made of metal. My goals aren't to be a gymnast or perform all the skills they can, but what I would really like is to train like one. I'll buy some rings later too.

So my original question here was, is it bad to do as many reps as you can, mainly of parallel bars exercises like dips, pulls and chins? I heard gymnasts do like, 3! but how's that? It's just that I heard that when you're doing 15+ reps of any exercise, that then you're only training for *endurance*. What does that mean? Does that mean you no longer grow muscle that way?

I also train to failure because, like i said, i'm not aspiring to be a gymnast, just workout. Thanks in advance for any replies.

[kbryk]

Well the basic answer to your question, gymnast do not only perform 3 pull ups, you heard wrong, gymnast are simply looking for maximum strength, output, in some situations. By having a routine of 15+ repetitions of more than 3 sets you working more of a conditioning or endurance routine you are correct there, you are working for more of a lactic acid, more efficient means of exercising. You will grow muscle as anyone else would as long as you get the correct protein(amino acids), but the trade off is it is not maximum effort, but you will be more conditioned.

Working till failure is not the best idea, it puts to much strain on your nervous system, keep this work limited.

If you are looking to be more endurance and conditioned you are working correctly, I am saying this assuming you have the correct routine.

[Saito]

Well the basic answer to your question, gymnast do not only perform 3 pull ups, you heard wrong, gymnast are simply looking for maximum strength, output, in some situations. By having a routine of 15+ repetitions of more than 3 sets you working more of a conditioning or endurance routine you are correct there, you are working for more of a lactic acid, more efficient means of exercising. You will grow muscle as anyone else would as long as you get the correct protein(amino acids), but the trade off is it is not maximum effort, but you will be more conditioned.

Working till failure is not the best idea, it puts to much strain on your nervous system, keep this work limited.

If you are looking to be more endurance and conditioned you are working correctly, I am saying this assuming you have the correct routine.

But how are 3 pullups even compared to maximum strength? or maybe more than that, but less than 10 either way? Or is it because they do them with added weight, like a dipbelt? Then it would make sense.

Well my routine consisted of:

-Start with dips, as much as i could-rest 30 seconds

-Pushups on top of the bars, as mush as i could-rest 30s.

-Chins, as much as i could-rest 30s

-And pullups, as much...

I probably did like 15 dips, 20 pushups, 11 chins and then maybe 8 pulls when I was working it everyday, but the problem was that I couldn't maintain it for at least a month, due to carelessness and my own fault.

When I was really good, I could do that routine, rest 5 minutes, and do it all over again. Not anymore haha. But the most I did in a day were like 4 of those rutines.

[kbryk]

Basic maximum strength Set/Repetition is 5x5, 5 sets of 5 repetitions each with heavy weight. One arm chin up is a maximum strength movement.

Now when we talk about conditioning such as 4x10, lighter weight but more work, lactic acid build up. 100 push ups is conditioning, or maximum effort.

Well my routine consisted of:

-Start with dips, as much as i could-rest 30 seconds

-Pushups on top of the bars, as mush as i could-rest 30s.

-Chins, as much as i could-rest 30s

-And pullups, as much...

So you do this four times a day?

I'm not to great at critiquing others routines, because I'm not sure what you are looking for.

[Saito]

Basic maximum strength Set/Repetition is 5x5, 5 sets of 5 repetitions each with heavy weight. One arm chin up is a maximum strength movement.

Now when we talk about conditioning such as 4x10, lighter weight but more work, lactic acid build up. 100 push ups is conditioning, or maximum effort.

Well my routine consisted of:

-Start with dips, as much as i could-rest 30 seconds

-Pushups on top of the bars, as mush as i could-rest 30s.

-Chins, as much as i could-rest 30s

-And pullups, as much...

So you do this four times a day?

I'm not to great at critiquing others routines, because I'm not sure what you are looking for.

No, I said I used to do that before, like 2 years ago maybe. Right now these days I just do without a specific order, but these last days I haven't been doing at all because I hurt both my shoulders playing, so I'm resting.

But I thought Gymnasts were 100% bodyweight? What's this about them using heavy weights?

[Gregor]

But I thought Gymnasts were 100% bodyweight? What's this about them using heavy weights?

Gymnast use BW, BW with weights, weights (rare, other more specific movements like you see in a fitness, for diffrent reasons).

[Scott Malin]

But I thought Gymnasts were 100% bodyweight? What's this about them using heavy weights?

Some do use them (Chinese National Team), some don't. The idea behind high intensity with weights is that it increases cns development and maximum motor unit activation without creating a large growth hormone response. Basically, you can move a heavier weight by keeping the force application per unit the same but increasing the overall mass; or you can keep the mass the same but increase the force application per unit. Gymnastics uses the latter which is why it's called relative strength.

[Saito]

Ok so, talking about training to failure, do you guys mean to failure as like stopping midway in a rep because you simply cannot any more, or like, doing 11 chins with perfect form, but not doing a #12 because you know you won't complete it? Is the latter equivalent as training to failure? Because that's what I do, I do as much as I can but I always complete the last rep.

How about that gymnats Marian Dragulescu, from romania, does that one use heavy weights?

[kbryk]

do you guys mean to failure as like stopping midway in a rep because you simply cannot any more, or like, doing 11 chins with perfect form, but not doing a #12 because you know you won't complete it?

Aren't these both basically the same, only thing different is you tried to perform #12, rather than stopping because you knew you couldn't?

Never heard of latter, but I know about ladder training with partners or groups, and it's brutal but works wonders.

[Saito]

I just saw some videos, and training to failure means literally doing until you can't advance any further, I've never done that. You're also jerking around and making weird faces and maybe farting too.

Like I said, i just do until I can't any more, but with good form.

[kbryk]

Training to failure is training to failure, you are putting to much thought into it. So what is the real question here?

[Saito]

Training to failure is training to failure, you are putting to much thought into it. So what is the real question here?

Well, if I could just keep increasing reps as much as I can, and would that still give me muscle gains.

Right now i'm just going to start to work on parallel bars only, because that's all I have lol, and of course declined pushups and hspu's.

Do you think if you were able to do at least 50 chins pulls or dips, that you would have big guns? That's what i want to know.

Right now my arms measure a measley 13" flexed, but cold and without doing anything, and like I said, i haven't been exercising lately.

[kbryk]

What is the obsession with getting big lately... sorry I work out to be fit, gaining more mass should just be a nice little side effect of training.

50 chinups within what amount of time, I can do 50 chins under 10 minutes, 50 dips within 3 sets, I'm not big, but compared to the most people I've seen in commercial gyms who are bulky, I can out lift most of them within my weight range +30 pounds and I can credit my gymnastics training to that. Here's a nice little story, my friends one of which uses creatine everyday, exercises at the commercial gym everyday with the general bodybuilder routine, consumes more protein than his body can even metabolize, he weights +20/30 pounds over me, and I can still bench 240-250 last time I guessed while he is only at 225, and he has been working out for about 1 year more than me.

Once again, I credit this to gymnastics, my joints will always be ready because of the gymnastics training I have done, that is one of the non-aparant pros. of gymnastics the joint work it applies.

Don't look for any fast results, work is work, there is no way of getting around it especially with gymnastics, it is suited to those that know how to work and train smart.

Like I told another fairly new member to this board, re look your goals because I believe you came here for the wrong reason if you are looking to get big sailor arms.

[Saito]

What is the obsession with getting big lately... sorry I work out to be fit, gaining more mass should just be a nice little side effect of training.

50 chinups within what amount of time, I can do 50 chins under 10 minutes, 50 dips within 3 sets, I'm not big, but compared to the most people I've seen in commercial gyms who are bulky, I can out lift most of them within my weight range +30 pounds and I can credit my gymnastics training to that. Here's a nice little story, my friends one of which uses creatine everyday, exercises at the commercial gym everyday with the general bodybuilder routine, consumes more protein than his body can even metabolize, he weights +20/30 pounds over me, and I can still bench 240-250 last time I guessed while he is only at 225, and he has been working out for about 1 year more than me.

Once again, I credit this to gymnastics, my joints will always be ready because of the gymnastics training I have done, that is one of the non-aparant pros. of gymnastics the joint work it applies.

Don't look for any fast results, work is work, there is no way of getting around it especially with gymnastics, it is suited to those that know how to work and train smart.

Like I told another fairly new member to this board, re look your goals because I believe you came here for the wrong reason if you are looking to get big sailor arms.

I do know my goals and what i want, i just asked a simple question. I know that of course you're never ever going to get Arnold Schwarzenegger arms with gymnastics alone, but that's not what I want, if it were that I would be in a gym weightlifting. I'd just like the arms of every professional gymnast, that kind. I know there are no fast results, just hard work.

As for the exercises, I meant doing them in one go, like you hang from the bar and bam! you start doing them, at a normal speed, not like crazy fast. And i don't mean do all them in succesion, but at least being able to do that amount of every one in one non-stop attempt.

[kbryk]

50 pullups is tough, actually extremely tough, that's out of my range, my range is 25ish.

http://gymnasticbodies.com/articles2.html

Pretty big arms huh?

If you are looking for larger arms, pullups, chinups and leverage straight arm work is the way to go.

[Nick]

The reason that simply adding more and more repetitions of exercises like pull-ups, dips, push ups, etc. isn't effective for muscle growth is because tension is a significant factor in muscle growth. There has to be a certain level of tension present to stimulate muscle gains. It's the same reason why marathon runners don't have huge legs. If 1 pull-up is a struggle, then that exercise would be difficult enough for you to put plenty of tension on the muscle. However if you can do 20 pull ups, each one is a very submaximal effort.

[Saito]

The reason that simply adding more and more repetitions of exercises like pull-ups, dips, push ups, etc. isn't effective for muscle growth is because tension is a significant factor in muscle growth. There has to be a certain level of tension present to stimulate muscle gains. It's the same reason why marathon runners don't have huge legs. If 1 pull-up is a struggle, then that exercise would be difficult enough for you to put plenty of tension on the muscle. However if you can do 20 pull ups, each one is a very submaximal effort.

I'm not asking if they could keep getting bigger and bigger the more reps you could do, but is there at least a minimun size they could get from just doing that? And could that minimun size be at least like, well i don't know, say 16" maybe? Or if you do that, will your arms get accustomed, then skinny, but you being able to do many reps?

[Nic Scheelings]

I'll try to answer your question for you. There is no minimum size that can be achieved doing any exercise. Every single person will respond differently. I know some people who just look at weights and seem to get bigger, others know a lot and train hard and have to struggle for every gram.

My advice to you is start following the basic strength training protocols on the forum. Work on HS, L-sit, Planche progressions, Front lever ect... For example to make your pullups more difficult you can do them in L-sit. If you decrease your leverage advantage bodyweight exercises get much harder. Focus on getting stronger, the rest will take care of itself.

[Saito]

I'll try to answer your question for you. There is no minimum size that can be achieved doing any exercise. Every single person will respond differently. I know some people who just look at weights and seem to get bigger, others know a lot and train hard and have to struggle for every gram.

My advice to you is start following the basic strength training protocols on the forum. Work on HS, L-sit, Planche progressions, Front lever ect... For example to make your pullups more difficult you can do them in L-sit. If you decrease your leverage advantage bodyweight exercises get much harder. Focus on getting stronger, the rest will take care of itself.

I don't think i'm a hard gainer or an "ectomorph" i think they call it, I seem to get muscle somewhat easy, and they also stay for some time even if i were to not exercise for some time, but i'm not too sure i'm an easy gainer either, maybe in between both.

So now that we know that i'm not a hard gainer, what do you think?

[Nic Scheelings]

I'm sorry but nobody here will be able to tell you how big you are going to get doing any excercise. We cannot predict that for you, but if you improve strength wise you will achieve what u are after.

[Saito]

Guess i'll have to find out for myself then, thanks for all the replies

[kbryk]

Guess i'll have to find out for myself then, thanks for all the replies

Best why to do things, and most fulfilling, doing things yourself. Don't worry about size, if you work enough for a certain amount of time and nutrition, "nature" will take care of the rest.

[griffdrc]

and this came up in another post as well... but if you're young it is very difficult to gain size... it takes time to get big(ger)... be patient... a watched pot never boils

[Saito]

and this came up in another post as well... but if you're young it is very difficult to gain size... it takes time to get big(ger)... be patient... a watched pot never boils

i'm not that young, i'm 19 already.

[Saito]

On second thought, i don't understand how come nobody here knows the answer to the question i made, what happenes if you just keep increasing reps and reps.