Joshua Naterman Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Good points. It all works together to properly perform the movement - retraction/depression of the scapula is required to fully fire the lats. The point of the exercise is to strengthen/teach activation of the sum of the units within the shoulder, not the parts - yet in the end, a progression to fully utilize (exert maximal force) the lats as in teaching someone to pull with the lats/shoulders and not just their arms. Scap stabilization is important and a core function to many of these movements - maybe proper shoulder activation is a more encompassing term.Shoulder co-activation is definitely a more accurate term, it just seems to be easier to get people to do what is good for them when you advertise am exercise as a specific treatment for a specific deficiency, which is absolutely true but not the full explanation.People don't care about what is "best" scientifically, they care about something that addresses their "specific and unique" situation. And so we developed marketing majors... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Full activation is more accurate I agree. If you watch most trainees learning to do pull ups for instance the lat's and their activation when pulling is rarely an issue. The issues typically lies in trap and rhomboid activation and scapular motion. Start by learning to activate those and then worry about activating the lat's. We move in patterns and learning activation sequence is very key. The lat's bypass the scap joint and attach directly to the spine so you "can" perform with suboptimal scap position but your injury risk is higher and performance lower.Now if you want to discuss proper lat activation during pressing movements, that's a bit different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Now if you want to discuss proper lat activation during pressing movements, that's a bit different.That is something I would like to hear your opinions about! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 It's easier to notice and practice with unilateral overhead presses.Take a moderately heavy weight. Press it once then set it down. Now get it back to your shoulder but instead of focusing on the press pretend there is a cable running from your lat over your shoulder to your bicep. Now pull down on this cable, engage the lat and focus on that portion of the movement for the press.What do you feel? (think about how your shoulder moved and was set in comparison and for those with good body awareness what was your T-spine like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ah, I have been doing this with my overhead dumbbell presses for a while now, my traps go crazy. Haven't tried one arm, haven't felt anything but what feels like a stretch in the long part of the lat, the most lateral aspect. Is that what I am looking for?Edit: I will have to try this tomorrow and see what I feel, I can't remember exactly what happens with the lats bilaterally because I haven't been focusing on that, just traps and neck/head position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 For a bilateral lift you're pretty much in the mark, by stabilizing the spine it creates a a better anchor for the traps to work. If the stretch you feel is intense I would say try a quick foam roll between sets. Nothing intense for obvious reasons but a quick one over the triggers. Pretty sure you're efficient enough in movement that your doing a lot of this naturally already.Uni-laterally you should feel a much bigger impact.In regards to horizontal pressing, from a hands near chest position you should be able to start movement with your lats through a bit of flaring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Now I guess the bigger picture with this was the activation order. In pull you set the scaps then the engage your lats. For pushing the order becomes reversed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Interesting. I'll have gym time today, looking forward to seeing how this works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Let me know what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alvaro Antolinez Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 It's easier to notice and practice with unilateral overhead presses.Take a moderately heavy weight. Press it once then set it down. Now get it back to your shoulder but instead of focusing on the press pretend there is a cable running from your lat over your shoulder to your bicep. Now pull down on this cable, engage the lat and focus on that portion of the movement for the press.What do you feel? (think about how your shoulder moved and was set in comparison and for those with good body awareness what was your T-spine like)I can´t imagine properly what you say here, is it there any video available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I don't have a video right now sorry. Think of your shoulder as a pulley, where the cable is running up and over it then down to your elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Glad I could help. I live to coach and teach, no better feeling then helping some one succeed in their goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I could feel some of what you were talking about, wasn't well fed the past few days so I haven't really been working out very hard. There is definitely a big difference between single arm and double arm lifts, will be paying more attention next time. Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Anytime, hope it helps down the road. Trying to post more. See if I can keep it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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