Improving Flexibility for Front and Middle Splits

[Sailor Venus]

I've been stretching my legs several days a week for a year and a half to achieve the front and box splits. I'm still not happy with my leg flexibility though there's a definite improvement since I started but its slow as hell. I like to look for ways to improve quickly.

For hamstrings, I can touch past the back of my heels without bending my knees and touch the floor with my finger tips but not with my fists. Straddle splits, my legs can open as wide as 50 degrees.

The weakest part of the front splits is my quadriceps. Its starting to annoy me that I can't bend my legs backwards apart from driving my knee into the floor and lean forward, my back leg bends at 220 degrees at best. What could I do to improve it?

I believe I been using static stretches before I came on this forum which is apparently the slowest, I hold my legs at its maximum range and let the muscles get stretched. I heard of PNF which is the fastest, I just don't know how to use other than improving hamstring stretches.

I'm not too sure about dynamic stretches which is new to me. How does it work?

Thanks

[D Nowell]

Stretching Scientifically was one of my favorite resources back before everything became readily available online. Here are some good free sources to get you started:

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/doc ... tretching/

http://agt.degreesofclarity.com/stretching/

I'm also a big fan of bands for stretching and a ton of other uses. The jumpstretch lower body flexibility routine is pretty good to keep you limber.

[Blairbob]

50 degree middle split. Damn, I have never heard or seen a middle split that small. Sounds like your pike is decent, though.

Have you done these?

Butterfly stretch.

Froggie splits.

Knee Lunge and 1/2 front split. Try the knee lunge and pull the back foreleg to your butt. Hurts like hell. KellyStarlett calls it the couch stretch and it's often done by placing the rear foreleg along a wall. Did I mention that it makes your quad scream. Seriously. I hate this stretch a lot.

http://drillsandskills.com/stretching/Splits

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Haha, Blairbob. I HATE the couch stretch, but I make myself do it 2-3 times a week. It's so painful :x

[Karl Kallio]

I HATE the couch stretch, but I make myself do it 2-3 times a week. It's so painful

Personally I have had luck backing off a little bit and doing the same stretch, but softer. That lets me do the stretch more frequently and I can relax into it. After a few days of relaxing into the stretch its possible to return to the previous intensity but it doesn't feel so ARG.

[Sailor Venus]

50 degree middle split. Damn, I have never heard or seen a middle split that small. Sounds like your pike is decent, though.

Have you done these?

Butterfly stretch.

Froggie splits.

Knee Lunge and 1/2 front split. Try the knee lunge and pull the back foreleg to your butt. Hurts like hell. KellyStarlett calls it the couch stretch and it's often done by placing the rear foreleg along a wall. Did I mention that it makes your quad scream. Seriously. I hate this stretch a lot.

http://drillsandskills.com/stretching/Splits

For middle splits, I can make it much bigger than 50 degrees by doing it against the wall with a heavy object behind me so my legs can't push me away from the wall. So my legs ends up at 80-85 degrees. Can't make my legs open up like that without a wall...

I don't like frog splits, don't work for me. I prefer to have legs completely out. Butterfly stretches are a piece of cake! I always sit with my legs crossed like children during a school assembly so I picked up the habit at home and often sat like that. Even at home when using a computer!

I think a ballet instructor once taught me that pull-my-leg-towards-your-butt stretch. I actually quite like that. I'm surprised some people hate it. Problem is weight on your back knee and you have to put something soft underneath like a cushion or something. The other I experienced is do not use your hamstring to lift your back leg! I had to use my hand and manually pick up the back leg or else the hamstring will go into a cramp! I feel that stretch only stretches the quads.

I feel something else stops me from bending my legs backwards. If you do a front knee lunge with the back leg completely straight and push the heel on that leg into the ground, you should feel a stretch in the groin or the inside leg somewhere. Thats what I believe that stops the leg from bending backwards aside from the quadriceps. What's the exact name of that stretched muscle?

Stretching Scientifically was one of my favorite resources back before everything became readily available online. Here are some good free sources to get you started:

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/doc ... tretching/

http://agt.degreesofclarity.com/stretching/

I'm also a big fan of bands for stretching and a ton of other uses. The jumpstretch lower body flexibility routine is pretty good to keep you limber.

Cheers for the link. There's a lot of in-dept stuff! Would PNF work for any muscle or just hamstrings?

[Blairbob]

Get some video.

Note this...it will be very difficult to develop a decent side cartwheel with only that amount of side split. You can probably develop a passable cartwheel from a lunge (front to back) or round-off, though. Well, maybe.

[Sailor Venus]

I used several videos on you tube which helped.

For increasing flexibility for the quads, I did this exercise when I lean on a chair and kick one of my legs backwards. When I did that I feel a pull in the hamstring of the opposite leg. Why is that?

[Blairbob]

Were you upright or leaning foward at all?

[RatioFitness]

Stretching Scientifically was one of my favorite resources back before everything became readily available online. Here are some good free sources to get you started:

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/doc ... tretching/

Be careful with the info on this site. I just picked a random section to read, "Why bodybuilders should stretch." The info was not accurate. Lactic acid does not cause soreness, nor does post exercise stretching decrease soreness.

Maybe all the rest is good, I can't say.

[Joshua Naterman]

Stretching Scientifically was one of my favorite resources back before everything became readily available online. Here are some good free sources to get you started:

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/doc ... tretching/

Be careful with the info on this site. I just picked a random section to read, "Why bodybuilders should stretch." The info was not accurate. Lactic acid does not cause soreness, nor does post exercise stretching decrease soreness.

Maybe all the rest is good, I can't say.

Nice catch! Sounds like someone was typing a site from an old book...

[D Nowell]

Stretching Scientifically was one of my favorite resources back before everything became readily available online. Here are some good free sources to get you started:

http://www.cmcrossroads.com/bradapp/doc ... tretching/

Be careful with the info on this site. I just picked a random section to read, "Why bodybuilders should stretch." The info was not accurate. Lactic acid does not cause soreness, nor does post exercise stretching decrease soreness.

Maybe all the rest is good, I can't say.

That is an old site that hasn't been updated in a while, he covers as much in the disclaimer. The actual applicable information relevant to the original posting on types of flexibility and how to apply them is as good as any.

[Sailor Venus]

Were you upright or leaning foward at all?

Leaning forward.

[Karl Kallio]

For increasing flexibility for the quads, I did this exercise when I lean on a chair and kick one of my legs backwards. When I did that I feel a pull in the hamstring of the opposite leg. Why is that?

Part of your quads and hamstrings insert onto the pelvis. If you keep your hips square (facing forward instead of twisting sideways) you can stretch the hamstring of the front leg at the same time as you stretch the quad of the back leg.

A quick way to feel this is to put one leg on a chair. Unless you are totally rigid you shouldn't feel much stretch. But, by turning your pelvis this way and that you can stretch several things. If you turn your supporting leg to face completely forward (parallel instead of turn-out) and move your pelvis to tucked in you should feel a stretch in the illio-psoas or recto femoris (1 of 4 quad muscles) of your supporting leg. Conversely, if you pull back on the ischial part of the pelvis (the sits bone) on the side with the leg on the chair you should feel a stretch in the hamstring.

I like using static stretches to teach people what muscle goes where and what direction to move in to stretch it. That way when we get around to things like leg swings they are aware of things like the position of the pelvis and knees.

[Joshua Naterman]

Your hamstring also has to contract as the swinging leg reaches flexibility limits and has to slow down, otherwise you will just flip forward onto your face. It may feel like a stretch, but it is a reflexive contraction as well.

I like the teaching application of the static stretches, very smart.

[Edward Smith]

For increasing flexibility for the quads, I did this exercise when I lean on a chair and kick one of my legs backwards. When I did that I feel a pull in the hamstring of the opposite leg. Why is that?

Part of your quads and hamstrings insert onto the pelvis. If you keep your hips square (facing forward instead of twisting sideways) you can stretch the hamstring of the front leg at the same time as you stretch the quad of the back leg.

I feel it alot in my hamstrings as well when I do this. Just a note on this exercise avoid excessively arching and rounding your back at the top and bottom of the swing, try and stay relatively neutral.

[Cole Dano]

Yes and that is part of why time spent working splits is so efficient, it's killing two birds with one stone. That said, it's not as effective for the hamstrings as a good pike stretch though it looks more spectacular, when you are able to do them.

At that point i've found it works well to do splits work first and then pike work.

One other thing with splits work is that it is much easier to engage the muscles naturally, so it suits PNF work, in fact it's almost self regulating.

Pike work is better for what Pavel calls, Relax into Stretch (RIS) work.

In yoga PNF is virtually unheard of, and i got most of my flexibility from passive work. I still think that it has been overly vilified and think it should be part of any comprehensive health and fitness program. However, it is amazing how well PNF works, you can see the results at once.

One thing i'm not sure on is the long term effect of PNF, does the flexibility remain. For that i do know that RIS is very effective though it takes a great deal of perseverance in the beginning.

[Edward Smith]

Cole,

I agree and disagree with you about PNF in regards to splits and pike. I think the splits are more 'naturally' suited to PNF stretching as the position of the torso relative to the legs provides a decent load and the legs point of contact with the ground creates a lengthy lever arm.

However, I think pike stretching can be made to suit PNF stretching. Just seated pike isn't the best route, unless perhaps you have a partner (but I've never tried it so it might not be that good at all). Standing pikes and the stretches on the stall bars Coach Sommer teaches at the seminars are however quite well suited to PNF. The problem with the seated pike is that mechanics are not really as good for PNF and you are trapping the hips. Standing (and on the stall bars) fixes this. With both our hips are able to freely rotate, allowing more focus to be able to be applied to the hamstrings and to therefore apply a harder stretch. Standing pikes however still have pretty small leverages/forces being applied with just your bodyweight, the stall bar stretches on the other hand have quite significant load/leverage applied (as you probably well know), so this is where weighing them comes in handy.

In regards to whether or not PNF lasts long-term. I think if it were to be done more as a strengthening protocol (longer hold times, a few sets) it would be long lasting, however just doing small 5-10sec sets within an extended static stretch is probably better for getting to your end ROM and busting through a plateau (which could then be solidified with extended static stretching).

Just my two cents,

Ed

P.S I think static stretching has become overly demonised as well. At my circus school with one of our teachers we do 5 minutes in splits for each direction, I've noticed my cold splits are closer to my warm splits now (as well as a total increase in splits ability), however this could be a defence mechanism in which my body knows the best way to avoid having a 70kg Albaninian man bearing down on me in the splits is to get my splits all the way to the ground!

[Joshua Naterman]

Ed, muscle does physically lengthen (put more sacromeres in series) with time and consistent stretching, and static stretching is probably the best way to get this adaptation. PNF and RIS are all basically variations of static stretching that use neurological reprogramming to incrementally get closer to true end ROM within a set.. it's not like you are releasing any of the stretch.

The overall duration of stretching is pretty important, I am fairly convinced that best result scenarios are heavily related to the amount of time necessary to prevent tissue shortening with 24h full immobilization (30 minutes a day on a specific joint), with a sliding scale that is strongly curvilinear. 15 minutes prevents 85% of the tissue shortening, which is a pretty fantastic compromise and probably means that 15 minutes of stretching per joint will give 85% of the maximum possible adaptation for that day. Doubling that time for an extra 15% is a lot to ask. This probably means that 10 minutes can give somewhere between 50-60% which is very achievable for most people. 10 minutes working on pike + 10 minutes working on splits + 10 minutes working on shoulders = very effective stretching program for 30 minutes of investment.

Using those neurological techniques is probably a smart way to go because it is more efficient, and PNF in particular is important because you build strength in the end ROM! PNF is considered to be a strengthening technique as well as a stretching technique.

[Michal Taszycki]

10 minutes working on pike + 10 minutes working on splits + 10 minutes working on shoulders = very effective stretching program for 30 minutes of investment.

I wonder if the time might be shortened with lighter sessions once-twice a day 5-7 days per week.

e.g. 1 minute per muscle group, submaximal contractions.

I just started to test a routine like that so I should get some results in couple of weeks. My lower body is extremely inflexible ([degrees]90[/degrees] pike, [degrees]90[/degrees] straddle and don't ask about my hip flexors ) so I'll see how it goes although I'm fairly motivated by this variant (immediate results, low intensity=less pain ).

[Cole Dano]

I believe that is a good idea.

There is also some recovery involved with stretching, and just like with other training it's the volume that can be the killer more than the intensity.

[Joshua Naterman]

10 minutes working on pike + 10 minutes working on splits + 10 minutes working on shoulders = very effective stretching program for 30 minutes of investment.

I wonder if the time might be shortened with lighter sessions once-twice a day 5-7 days per week.

e.g. 1 minute per muscle group, submaximal contractions.

I just started to test a routine like that so I should get some results in couple of weeks. My lower body is extremely inflexible ([degrees]90[/degrees] pike, [degrees]90[/degrees] straddle and don't ask about my hip flexors ) so I'll see how it goes although I'm fairly motivated by this variant (immediate results, low intensity=less pain ).

Probably not, but that IS how you would want to work into a proper stretching routine, just like you would do with a strength workout. You don't start off full speed, you ease in so that your body can get used to it and take 4-5 weeks to work into the full volume.

There is no substitute for volume in stretching, it is more important than intensity. Both have their role, but volume is the major factor in getting results. Doesn't mean you need to stretch forever, but you need enough volume. 1 minute per muscle group will not give good results over a long period of time. You will have to increase the volume at some point. When it comes to stretching and long term results you are asking the sarcomeres to re-align themselves and they don't do that unless you give them a darn good reason. That reason is spending sufficient time in a stretched position. It is the time, not high intensity, that really matters for this training effect.

[Cole Dano]

For me, high volume was 2-4 hours, 6 days a week.

I didn't really take the one minute part very seriously, because, well it's not going to work, it's not enough time, and i think that would become obvious. The intended 3 minute sessions would last longer.

But i do like the idea of, get to your max stretch multiple times a day, but don't overdo the time in it so much you are completely sore.

[Ronnicky Roy]

So would 15 minutes of stretching be the optimal time to spend in stretching a particular joint or is that just the minimum for a sustained increase in ROM?

I'm currently stretching my hip flexors with a simple couch stretch and just 4 minutes per hip is a serious stretch for me. Would I be fine with just spending 5 min or should I opt to get in 15 minutes? I'm trying to undo some hip flexor shortening from years of sitting during college

[Cole Dano]

It's always going to be relative to where you are, plus at 4 minutes a stretch its 8 minutes total. The best indicator is going to be your perceived intensity plus how much residual soreness you have the next day or two.