Foot Behind Head

[Philip Chubb]

One of my goals is placing my foot behind my head. I am working a lot of different stretches but I am really not sure which I should be using because I don't know exactly how you are supposed to get your foot there with good form. Any yogis practice this pose and know how to safetly get into it? Mr. Brady? Anybody? Thank you!

[Cole Dano]

Foot behind the head is pretty specific, i know people who can't do butterfly well, yet can put their foot behind the head and visa versa. The only way to get it is to work on it specifically. That said, at this point of my life i consider it to be more of a trick with little practical value, and would make sure to work on the more important areas of flexibility as well.

Its very difficult to describe the process of how to work on it online. But there are two very important things to always keep in mind. It is NOT about the knee. In the beginning its vital to learn to keep the knee joint solid so as to minimize any side bending and at a 90 degree angle. the second thing is the lower back, it must be active and resisting the force of the leg to press it back .

When i was practicing it i did very many variations and was quite comfortable with it. However it is hard on the lower back, keep that in mind and do some work to decompress after working on FBtH.

I actually considered FBtH to be a sort of poor man's deadlift, using the resistance of the leg against the back as the load. The entire back must fight the crushing force of the leg.

[Blairbob]

Isn't it just mainly flexible hips?

[Philip Chubb]

Thank you! I will be sure to keep those points in mind as I do it. I can feel what you mean already. I can already force my leg up there, but my lower back bends and I can't do anything from it. I see I have to actively resist that.

[Aaron Griffin]

Foot behind the head is pretty specific, i know people who can't do butterfly well, yet can put their foot behind the head and visa versa.

I'm one of them. I can do both feet (individually) behind my head, but can't properly get my knees to the ground in a butterfly - and it hurts my left hip to do it

[Mark Bernacchi]

I can do this too and would agree that it is mostly just flexible hips. I actually used to be quite good at doing both legs behind my head at the same time and walking around on my hands.... but I've not tried in a while haha. Not very practical either, the only carry over I've had is more pure hip flexibility: having my legs at a 90 degree angle on the ground then pointing one foot straight in the air while keeping the same knee on the ground. If I could get these "tricks" to be active flexibility, then maybe it would be beneficial!

[Philip Chubb]

I am jealous of both of you. I can do it, but I can't move very well with it. Actually I have to keep my hands on my head. I think it could be useful if you get creative :wink:. I want to get into a bit of contortion though. Just to have a bit more variety. Though there is only so far I can get with that now.

[Cole Dano]

That's how it starts for most people. After a while you'll figure out how to hook it behind your neck and hold it from there rather than your hand.

I do think it requires a great deal of active flexibility, but i can honestly say this was my speciality. I don't do it now, but i imagine i could get it back over a couple of weeks. I was starting to have hip stability issues, and now i'd rather do squats!

Anyway, the hip rotators are also active in this when you start to find them, they actually will start to hold the leg, but at first hands, then neck and upper back...

[Aaron Griffin]

My guess is that having a good pigeon might help

[Philip Chubb]

Instability is exactly the reason I want to get this skill in more an active fashion. I don't intend on doing a lot of passive stretching for this. I do too much tumbling to have hip instability (lesson learned the hard way).

I can get my foot back there, but my back has to curl way too much. I want to be able to while keeping in good form like you said earlier.

Thanks Phrak! I will look that up.

[Cole Dano]

Pigeon doesn't necessarily help. Hip flexibility can vary quite allot depending on the angle of the femur. That said good all round hip flexibility is important.

[Philip Chubb]

Do you have any in particular that you reccomend for this skill, Mr. Brady?

[Cole Dano]

Well FBtH is very specific, really the only thing to do to get it, is work on it.

However, i do think one should have a good base of flexibility before making serious efforts to get FBtH.

There is a method i use, but the problem is its just too hard to convey via a forum post.

But here is a preliminary sequence you can play with.

Start in butterfly sitting up, then bend forward from the hips bringing your head to the ground if possible. Move your feet a few inches out, keeping them together, head to the floor.... repeat moving out gradually until your feet are out to your head, this should take about four or five steps.

Its no big deal if you can't get all the way to the floor, make your best effort.

[Philip Chubb]

Thank you again Mr. Brady. That gives me a couple more ideas.

[Jason Stein]

Philip,

Some specific preparatory asanas: you might also Google Image viswamitrasana, vasistasana, kurmasana, supta kurmasana, kasyapasana (the one with FBH) and yogi nidrasana; the last you can do with one leg at a time, rather than both. It is entered lying on the back and so helps prevent lumbar compression.

I feel, also after having practiced and taught this posture and its variations for many years, that it would be useful to have someone with experience eyeball your morphology --- long torso/short limbed-people can find this more challenging.

Not that it's impossible, but you'll need to gauge the return-on-investment you're looking at.

Hope this helps and best of luck,

jason

[Blairbob]

For guys, it's just another stupid trick.

However, in the opinion of myself and I'm sure various other males in the world; it is quite a sight when you can see a female do this.

[Philip Chubb]

Thanks a lot Jason! I looked them all up and it gave me more to use. I like some of the poses in yoga. Especially the balancing ones. Makes me want to find a good yoga teacher. Hard to tell when a class is actually good or not.

I want to use it to help my manna progress.

[Cole Dano]

I would have a hard time calling many of the poses on that list 'preparatory'' but working on it lying on your back is certainly effective for some. The progression i gave will get you to supta kurmasana, which places the least pressure on the low back, but is also at first the least active. But not knowing anything about your abilities, i have to assume you are starting from ground zero.

Yoga classes can be a real mixed bag, but even if you find a good teacher, like anything, you have to stick with it for a while to get to things like FBtH. I can't see FBtH being taught in your everyday class, unless its an Ashtanga class. But at least in my area, there are a lot of under-qualified people yanking and cranking on students before they are ready, so beware.

Bob you're too funny, i have to admit i've seen too many guys wearing lycra shorts in that position and personally think they should be banned from yoga studios.

[Blairbob]

Interesting position that maybe I will play with. I need to work on my hip flexibility mainly so my back and hips don't hurt.

I've had a handful of boys and girls in gym who could do it. Some were pretty funny in that they would try to walk on their hands while doing it.

Yoga shorts are like bike shorts in the fact that they expose a bit too much. I have a pair of baggy sweats for doing my stretching in.

To note, our society such as it is, tends to find it a bit odd for guys in yoga shorts. During one of my recreational boys classes, a young boy came in and tried it out while wearing yoga shorts. Quite a few of the other boys questioned why there was a girl in the class (as he had long hair, yoga shorts, and was a bit chubby). I hushed them quickly and told them he was our new guy trying out and there were no more incidents after that but I am just saying even young boys found it a bit odd.

Such are the times I think.

[Cole Dano]

Years back i summoned the courage to don a pair of 'yoga shorts' many years after that i realized they aren't comfortable and plain ugly. The big problem being they are binding, which is just annoying, stick with those sweat pants.

The scant cloth the indians wear is not nearly so binding and makes sense in context.

Its a fun move to play with admittedly, i just did it so much it lost its appeal, and i can't honestly say it did anything special for me. Other things like splits i intend to maintain as long as i can though.

[Jason Stein]

Blair,

I spend a fair amount of time in yoga shorts or boardshorts, so it's interesting to see what "costumes" are accepted and even expected in a subculture (the yoga studio, for example), versus social disapproval or even stigma outside of it.

This expectation varies from place to place, so for example there're differences between yoga clothes in Tokyo, Rio, Miami, and Los Angeles.

You might not be surprised to know the hotter/more humid the climate, the shorter/more shear the clothes get.

Though pretty much everywhere except the U.S. it seems that Speedos are a legitimate option.

Other examples of subculture specific clothes: cyclist clothing (spandex) in general; rash-guards in the weight-room, the martial arts gi, circus and ballet performer tights, o-lifting spandex singlets, triathlon singlets ... even gymnastic competition tights & booties.

As far as foot-behind-head, there is a flexibility component for sure, which I find greatly aided/abetted by pigeon and the multitude of its variations.

There's also a morphological component; for example, I know several people with flat middle splits (suspended splits/oversplits, even), as well as flat butterfly, pigeon and pancake, who struggle with the unique hip rotation for leg-behind-head. My wife, for example.

There's a specific angle required between the neck and shaft of the thigh bone (angle of inclination of femur). The more open this angle, the less the tops of the thigh bones rub against the cartilage collar of the hip socket.

Have fun, Starret's rules apply: "stop if you think it's gonna hurt you, your spine is going to come out your throat, or your face goes numb."

best,

jason

[Blairbob]

So it's possibly dependent on morphology. Makes sense.

Yeah, in many gymnastics gyms where I've been, especially those gyms without air conditioning, you'll find it common for the boys to basically wear a pair of short shorts, especially when they are little guys. Really competition shorts are similar to track shorts (which I remember hating to wear). In Okinawa, when they used to practice karate they would usually strip down to just pants or their underwear (we generally would often strip down to pants only. as well, body training [taking kicks, punches, and slaps] is more effective with less clothing).

Most cheer gyms are similar that if we you walk in, the girls are in sport bras and shorts/skirts. I walked in one time and it took some getting used to but half of the girls already knew me since they took private tumbling lessons or classes at the gym I coached at and I was merely stopping by to check their gym.

Quite often, on my own, I find it pretty comfortable to work out in just a pair of boxers or shorts. However, we had one guy at the college club this year who needed to be told (he was a french traceur) to don back his pants as he would slip off his sweats and workout in boxers (luckily seemed to be buttoned or no slit).

[jl5555]

This topic really morphed.

I can marginally work my foot behind my head though I tend to view it more as wanting to get the leg behind the shoulder. There are a few support positions in yoga that work off the concept of getting that shoulder under your thigh. I get an enormous satisfaction working arm supports in yoga because I find appealing the combination of strength, flexibility and balance. I actually think the route to foot/leg behind head/shoulder is actually a rather simple one that begins at low lunge and progresses towards forward split. From there it's a simple matter of working on hip opening to tie it all together. (To work this I go into low lunge with elbows on the floor and roll the ankle to lean the forward knee out to the side progressively over 4 sets eventually ending up in pigeon with my ankle at my chin.)

For a guy the concept of getting this is not evident for sure. Conventional wisdom views men as less flexible than women but having achieved front split at my age with about 2 years work proves otherwise. I really think that this set of movements has really stabilized my lower back and sacrum.

LOL, now as for what to wear when doing this stuff all I have to say is that I think that after considering whatever fashion statement you are trying to make it has everything to do with your "equipment". I personally do not like pinching my equipment between my legs or constantly repositioning it while trying to do a pose so I wear gear appropriate to that job. Women don't experience that issue but I think their boobs get in the way at times. Lately at the gym I've been doing a lot of pullovers and the prospect of stray bits getting crushed has me making sure it's all well contained down there, I would presume guys on the high bar, pommel horse and p bars might think the same.

Occasionally I do "hot" yoga or get involved in particularly sweaty workouts. I really don't know how you maximize your workout and get through one of those with layers of droopy long shorts and t shirts.

[Philip Chubb]

I have definitely used that one! I can get my foot over my shoulder. I am working on Mr Bradys stretch he gave and I can tell my hip is kind of tight. It is helping though.

The "equipment" issue is the exact reason I stopped doing bar work. It took one messed up backhip circle to end any idea of getting good at that. Rings and tumbling for me now.

[Blairbob]

I know your pain, Phillip.

I can remember early in my coaching and gymnastics career asking a certain gymnastics coach if there was any tricks to pullovers and backhip circles and protecting yourself. George Hery is known worldwide since the 50's and 60's due to his trampoline prowess. Aside he told me to basically be careful.

My dad has a lot of stories of Mr. Pommel slamming Mr. Crotch. I have rarely had those problems with Mr. Pommel. However, I have seen a few accidents on PB which mainly go back to the point of you should keep your legs together for the most part on PB.

Inbar work on HB never became something I liked after too many hip circle accidents and a few stride and front hip circles.