Strength progress?

[Kiyoshi]

Today after school, I decided to see how many pull ups I could do.

And I did 20 , I was shocked. I didnt know I could do 20 pull ups in a row, i have made great progress if thats the case.

I dont know how I would have made that much progress, since only about a week or 2 ago I found my max to be at around 15.

Any explanations?

It might have been because I was fresh today.

[Philip Chubb]

Well I am not sure what you are doing in terms of your workouts, but if you are just starting out in gymnastic training, you make some good neurological gains in the beginning. Basically, your body learns how to work better and recruit more motor units. Regardless, awesome progress and congrats!

[JL]

There are many possibilities. One is overreaching for a period of time and then coming back supercompensated after fatigue has dissipated. Two rep gains are not out of the question, even at intensities in the 2-9 RM range. Maybe different technique. A little bit of kip helps. Also, could simply be great early gains. Most likely, you did something right.

[Seiji]

Sometimes I stop doing something and come back better later.

Besides workouts (which would obviously help), do you do any everyday activities like pulling heavy objects?

[Kiyoshi]

Today I got tired more easily though, however I did 2 consecutive 60 sec shuttle runs followed by 2 consecutive senders , then immediately 20 jumping squats, only about 1-2 min rest at most I Immediately started my pullups, I did 10 wide grip pullups rested about 10-20 sec then did 10 more wide grip pullups rested about a minute and did 10 wide grip chinups, and I did 10 more wide grip pullups but couldnt really finish them that easily, I had to kip on the last few. I did 10 OAC progressions for each arm and a few static pull up holds.

I was upset I didnt do the rest of my training , my head started hurting so I had to quit.

I want to be able to do 40-50 consecutive pullups, I can do about 20 good form. Do you know how long it will take me if I do something like this 2 times a week?

also if I should do less or more reps too increase my results.

How do I know if I had a good workout or not? I have pretty strict standards for myself on this , so when I cant complete my training I am not satisfied. I have completed my workouts before, they were hard. hehe I hope I didnt annoy anyone lol

[Tarun Suri]

I want to be able to do 40-50 consecutive pullups, I can do about 20 good form. Do you know how long it will take me if I do something like this 2 times a week?

Strict or kipping? Big difference. If its strict, chances are never, or at the very least a few years. Probably impossible if your training OAC at the same time as high volume chins. I think if you get your OAC first, then trained for high reps, that would cut your training time significantly.

[Kiyoshi]

I want to be able to do 40-50 consecutive pullups, I can do about 20 good form. Do you know how long it will take me if I do something like this 2 times a week?

Strict or kipping? Big difference. If its strict, chances are never, or at the very least a few years. Probably impossible if your training OAC at the same time as high volume chins. I think if you get your OAC first, then trained for high reps, that would cut your training time significantly.

Strict.

I'm sure I can, probably take years though. Whats the world record for pullups?

So train mainly for OAC first before focusing on increasing volume? After I get a OAC, increasing my volume for OAC will increase my volume for two arm chinup/ pullups more than training two arms?

[Blairbob]

To note, I can remember one of those guys who did one of the pullup marathons stating he could not do more than around a dozen pullups in a row at a time.

[Kiyoshi]

To note, I can remember one of those guys who did one of the pullup marathons stating he could not do more than around a dozen pullups in a row at a time.

What do you mean?

I can already do around 20 pullups in a row.

[Deft-Mastery]

Why do you want to be able to do 40-50 pullups?

[Kiyoshi]

Why do you want to be able to do 40-50 pullups?

Because its a personal goal of mine.

[Kiyoshi]

I think I got elbow tendonitis in my left elbow,

how long does it take to recover from? I really want to keep working on my pullups and if I cant do pulling moves it takes alot of my training away. How much strength do you lose in a month or two of not doing a particular move? But its still okay to do pressing moves right?

[Guest]

Dude... no offense but the only thing I see you asking over and over again is: 'how fast can I reach this and that goal', not listening to the helpful advice you've been given about progressing slowly and mastering the basics and then you wonder why you get elbow tendonitis and then you ask 'how long does it take, how much strength will I lose'... why do you have this obsession with ultra-fast progress and 'hard training'?

If you read any of the threads on this forum you will know that your attitude to GB strength training is a guaranteed recipe for injury. I don't care whether you are already strong or not but it has been pointed out time and time again that this particular type of training imposes a sh*tload of stress on your connective tissues and it takes time for these tissues to adapt.

[Kiyoshi]

Dude... no offense but the only thing I see you asking over and over again is: 'how fast can I reach this and that goal', not listening to the helpful advice you've been given about progressing slowly and mastering the basics and then you wonder why you get elbow tendonitis and then you ask 'how long does it take, how much strength will I lose'... why do you have this obsession with ultra-fast progress and 'hard training'?

If you read any of the threads on this forum you will know that your attitude to GB strength training is a guaranteed recipe for injury. I don't care whether you are already strong or not but it has been pointed out time and time again that this particular type of training imposes a sh*tload of stress on your connective tissues and it takes time for these tissues to adapt.

Did I once ask why I got tendonitis? no you just made that up. I havent mastered the basics, but I got them down pretty good. And I just want to make the most of my training, if you want to go very slow that is your own problem. I like to train hard and intense. Not alot of people can say they are really pushing them self to their limit. It also takes discipline to do it, and is harder. Anyway I would like answers to my questions, not little remarks about my training style.

[Cole Dano]

Sorry to hear about the injury, please do take care of it. There are some pretty simple elbow rehab programs you can find just Google tennis elbow. High rep tricep extensions with a cable machine or band are also good.

Depending on how bad it is it can take awhile, 1-6 months. Sometimes if its not bad, just resting it will be enough and its good in a week, time will tell. Most people say after 3-4 weeks you start loosing strength. No point in worrying about it though. It really impossible to say more based on a quick forum post.

There are certain basic facts, call them laws of nature, one is you can't go at 100% all the time and not get injured. Coach, who's athletes are ridiculously strong, made this point during the seminar. He also stated that at most an athlete can go 100% twice a year. The rest of the time is building strength reserves, putting strength in the bank. No matter how tough you are you can't really change this fact. Its fine to go all out, you just have to realize it can't be done every workout.

Its also wise to balance the pushing and pulling. If you want to get to 40 pull ups, there's nothing wrong with that, but you might set a similar goal for a pushing variation, if you haven't already.

[Kiyoshi]

Sorry to hear about the injury, please do take care of it. There are some pretty simple elbow rehab programs you can find just Google tennis elbow. High rep tricep extensions with a cable machine or band are also good.

Depending on how bad it is it can take awhile, 1-6 months. Sometimes if its not bad, just resting it will be enough and its good in a week, time will tell. Most people say after 3-4 weeks you start loosing strength. No point in worrying about it though. It really impossible to say more based on a quick forum post.

There are certain basic facts, call them laws of nature, one is you can't go at 100% all the time and not get injured. Coach, who's athletes are ridiculously strong, made this point during the seminar. He also stated that at most an athlete can go 100% twice a year. The rest of the time is building strength reserves, putting strength in the bank. No matter how tough you are you can't really change this fact. Its fine to go all out, you just have to realize it can't be done every workout.

Its also wise to balance the pushing and pulling. If you want to get to 40 pull ups, there's nothing wrong with that, but you might set a similar goal for a pushing variation, if you haven't already.

Thanks. Yeah I'm going to stop from the pullups and such till it feels better. Is it okay to do pushups , handstands, HLL, Front lever, Back lever , with tendonitis. Just not pulling exercises, or is it everything with it.

What I mean go all out, is go until I can barely do anything at all. I dont know if I go 100% I'm not sure Ive seen my 100% but I definetly give it my all. You will see with my training results. Yeah I do , pushing on tuesday, pulling on thursday, legs/core on saturday, and a mix on sunday.

I have a goal for pushups, its 100+ consecutive no rest. I can do 65+ without resting. I did 65 but I probably could have done more. But this is all just for my first phase of training.

Anyway thanks, I will try tricep extensions. Do the light exercises help strengthen as well as heal the arm ?

[Cole Dano]

Your elbow will tell you what movements you can do, just don't go into pain.

You know as i think of it, for your goals the SSC type program might be a good way to proceed, only using reps as the constant for each 6 week cycle. So if you are at say 60 PUs for 6 weeks, it should be a number that is hard but doable, after 6 weeks that should be easy. Which is the point with SSC it gives time for adaptation since the same number of reps should feel progressively easier over the course of six weeks.

Of course right now the priority is getting the elbow healthy.

[Guest]

Did I once ask why I got tendonitis? no you just made that up. I havent mastered the basics, but I got them down pretty good. And I just want to make the most of my training, if you want to go very slow that is your own problem. I like to train hard and intense. Not alot of people can say they are really pushing them self to their limit. It also takes discipline to do it, and is harder. Anyway I would like answers to my questions, not little remarks about my training style.

You didn't ask why you got tendonitis, you just stated that you think you have it. I know that. But the questions you ask lead me to believe that you haven't considered that your urge to achieve your goals as fast as possible is the cause of this tendonitis. So let me say it again: GB-style training requires strengthening of the muscles as well as the connective tissues. This takes time. Did you read about the concept of steady state cycles and about training the FSPs at half your max hold time, building up to a total of 60s before moving on to the next progression?

Slizzardman has written extensively on how he injured himself and the insights he gained from that experience. His posts contain a LOT of valuable information. Use this information to your advantage.

I'm not belittling your training style. You just have to realize that 'making the most out of your training' does not always equal 'pushing yourself to the limit'. Neither is 'harder' always 'better'. If you want to achieve a Gymnastic Body, there are no shortcuts.

[Kiyoshi]

Did I once ask why I got tendonitis? no you just made that up. I havent mastered the basics, but I got them down pretty good. And I just want to make the most of my training, if you want to go very slow that is your own problem. I like to train hard and intense. Not alot of people can say they are really pushing them self to their limit. It also takes discipline to do it, and is harder. Anyway I would like answers to my questions, not little remarks about my training style.

You didn't ask why you got tendonitis, you just stated that you think you have it. I know that. But the questions you ask lead me to believe that you haven't considered that your urge to achieve your goals as fast as possible is the cause of this tendonitis. So let me say it again: GB-style training requires strengthening of the muscles as well as the connective tissues. This takes time. Did you read about the concept of steady state cycles and about training the FSPs at half your max hold time, building up to a total of 60s before moving on to the next progression?

Slizzardman has written extensively on how he injured himself and the insights he gained from that experience. His posts contain a LOT of valuable information. Use this information to your advantage.

I'm not belittling your training style. You just have to realize that 'making the most out of your training' does not always equal 'pushing yourself to the limit'. Neither is 'harder' always 'better'. If you want to achieve a Gymnastic Body, there are no shortcuts.

Yup, I do FSP all the time.

yeah, I have read his posts and add alot of what he says to my training.

I'm not taking shortcuts, I'm just doing my best I can.

[Coach Sommer]

... I'm not taking shortcuts, I'm just doing my best I can ...

This is not an entirely accurate statement; in fact it is a contradiction of the facts at hand. You received numerous recommendations from various forum members to slow down the pace of your training or you would get injured. However this was not what you wanted to hear and you disregarded their council. You are now injured. This is a direct result of failing the follow the advice of those more experienced then you.

With Gymnastic Strength Training™, doing "your best" does not entail working to failure each and every workout; it means setting the ego aside and focusing on what is best for the long term, not indulging yourself with short term myopia.

Interestingly, this is an excellent example of how most of us are incapable of learning from the mistakes of others. We mistakenly believe that these lessons do not apply to us or that we are special and by some gift of nature; immune. Nothing could be further from the truth. If you truly want to make excellent progress, you need to embrace the reality of your physical nature and than plan your training accordingly.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

I'm coaching myself to not be frustrated with peoples' insistence on making their own mistakes!

Kiyoshi, if you are very smart you will start doing exactly what I am doing and stop worrying about strength. That will come on its own. I'm not even TRAINING pressing motions and I'm at least as strong as I was, even though my prime movers are not as large or strong as they were, because the smaller structural muscles, tendons, and ligaments are becoming stronger. THEY are the ones that will limit your progress. I've written what to do many times, but I think I'm going to need to make a sticky for this, because many people are insistent on injuring themselves.

I can tell you this for 100% certain: If you do not take this opportunity to permanently change your mindset regarding training this will just be the first in a long string of injuries.

[Mikko Myllymäki]

A sticky sounds like a good idea.

[Joshua Naterman]

Dude... no offense but the only thing I see you asking over and over again is: 'how fast can I reach this and that goal', not listening to the helpful advice you've been given about progressing slowly and mastering the basics and then you wonder why you get elbow tendonitis and then you ask 'how long does it take, how much strength will I lose'... why do you have this obsession with ultra-fast progress and 'hard training'?

If you read any of the threads on this forum you will know that your attitude to GB strength training is a guaranteed recipe for injury. I don't care whether you are already strong or not but it has been pointed out time and time again that this particular type of training imposes a sh*tload of stress on your connective tissues and it takes time for these tissues to adapt.

Did I once ask why I got tendonitis? no you just made that up. I havent mastered the basics, but I got them down pretty good. And I just want to make the most of my training, if you want to go very slow that is your own problem. I like to train hard and intense. Not alot of people can say they are really pushing them self to their limit. It also takes discipline to do it, and is harder. Anyway I would like answers to my questions, not little remarks about my training style.

I somehow missed this post.

I'm torn between sending you a PM and just making a small roast here. Don't worry, I'm roasting myself too. What you are saying is more or less exactly what I was saying when I first joined here. Now, to be fair there wasn't quite as much talk about training timelines or the tendon issues and why they will happen, but I also had this same attitude. "I train hard, sucka! I'm better than you because I leave shattered pieces of myself in the gym, that's how hard I work!" I look back on that attitude with shame and disgust, because that is the attitude of a person who needs some accomplishment to define his or her personal worth to both his/herself and the rest of the world. I was never condescending like what you have written here, with a few exceptions like where I bugged Ido about trying something or other with lifting and getting back to us with the results. Now I really did think that my suggestion might have helped but I absolutely was rude and certainly got the angry reply that I deserved. I apologized and things are cool now. I have also worked VERY hard to improve my interactions with people, my attitude, and my outlook on everything. It continues to pay off.

If you don't realize that it takes a lot more discipline to sit down, make a multi-year plan for success, and stick to it than it takes to just go balls to the wall all the time then you've got absolutely no idea what discipline is. Even gifted people take 5-6 years to achieve elite(best of the best) athletic status once they start training properly. That's a FACT. With the right equipment and recovery techniques the most gifted athletes can be trained to their potential in 4-5 years according to some minds, but even they are not sure if that time frame is quite long enough, and that's not even for low leverage stuff like advanced gymnastic strength. These people don't care about getting there as fast as possible, they care about getting there ON TIME. It doesn't do them any good to be peaking after 3 years of training if their career only lasts 2 years. They are far better off peaking after 5-6 years of serious training and performing at their best for 8-15 years.

THAT is discipline. KNOWING you can do something and waiting because it is not the right time yet is hard. Trying to push your limits every day is much easier. I would know, I've done both.

I hope this helps you get some perspective. If you feel embarrassed or angry, that's good. It means that some part of you realizes that you are out of line. Take a break from here until you can come back with a better attitude and a focus on learning how to maximize your success instead of minimizing your time line.

[Kiyoshi]

Dude... no offense but the only thing I see you asking over and over again is: 'how fast can I reach this and that goal', not listening to the helpful advice you've been given about progressing slowly and mastering the basics and then you wonder why you get elbow tendonitis and then you ask 'how long does it take, how much strength will I lose'... why do you have this obsession with ultra-fast progress and 'hard training'?

If you read any of the threads on this forum you will know that your attitude to GB strength training is a guaranteed recipe for injury. I don't care whether you are already strong or not but it has been pointed out time and time again that this particular type of training imposes a sh*tload of stress on your connective tissues and it takes time for these tissues to adapt.

Did I once ask why I got tendonitis? no you just made that up. I havent mastered the basics, but I got them down pretty good. And I just want to make the most of my training, if you want to go very slow that is your own problem. I like to train hard and intense. Not alot of people can say they are really pushing them self to their limit. It also takes discipline to do it, and is harder. Anyway I would like answers to my questions, not little remarks about my training style.

I somehow missed this post.

I'm torn between sending you a PM and just making a small roast here. Don't worry, I'm roasting myself too. What you are saying is more or less exactly what I was saying when I first joined here. Now, to be fair there wasn't quite as much talk about training timelines or the tendon issues and why they will happen, but I also had this same attitude. "I train hard, sucka! I'm better than you because I leave shattered pieces of myself in the gym, that's how hard I work!" I look back on that attitude with shame and disgust, because that is the attitude of a person who needs some accomplishment to define his or her personal worth to both his/herself and the rest of the world. I was never condescending like what you have written here, with a few exceptions like where I bugged Ido about trying something or other with lifting and getting back to us with the results. Now I really did think that my suggestion might have helped but I absolutely was rude and certainly got the angry reply that I deserved. I apologized and things are cool now. I have also worked VERY hard to improve my interactions with people, my attitude, and my outlook on everything. It continues to pay off.

If you don't realize that it takes a lot more discipline to sit down, make a multi-year plan for success, and stick to it than it takes to just go balls to the wall all the time then you've got absolutely no idea what discipline is. Even gifted people take 5-6 years to achieve elite(best of the best) athletic status once they start training properly. That's a FACT. With the right equipment and recovery techniques the most gifted athletes can be trained to their potential in 4-5 years according to some minds, but even they are not sure if that time frame is quite long enough, and that's not even for low leverage stuff like advanced gymnastic strength. These people don't care about getting there as fast as possible, they care about getting there ON TIME. It doesn't do them any good to be peaking after 3 years of training if their career only lasts 2 years. They are far better off peaking after 5-6 years of serious training and performing at their best for 8-15 years.

THAT is discipline. KNOWING you can do something and waiting because it is not the right time yet is hard. Trying to push your limits every day is much easier. I would know, I've done both.

I hope this helps you get some perspective. If you feel embarrassed or angry, that's good. It means that some part of you realizes that you are out of line. Take a break from here until you can come back with a better attitude and a focus on learning how to maximize your success instead of minimizing your time line.

Actually I'm not saying "I train hard, sucka" I'm better than you because I leave shattered pieces of myself in the gym, thats how hard I work". I just like training that way, and if you take it that way that is not my fault. I dont want to get in an arguement, but it seems on this site that is impossible to avoid. I have been doing martial arts my whole life , I have a good idea to what disclipine is, I have also made a training program and sat down for many countless hours coming up with it and revising it. Stop going off your assumptions please. Also if you feel im not showing disclipline, i would say youre wrong, but its your opinion youre allowed to think whatever you want. Yeah youre right I know to reach my goals it will take several years, but I am willing to wait that long. I have my own goals , expectations and reasons for doing them. Dont judge my training when you dont know my intentions, youre going purely off of assumptions. Also, the elbow tendonitis is something I wanted to experience just to know how fast I should take it and learn first hand. If I could have avoided it , I would get more training. no biggie haha

Well that might be your experience, that pushing your limits every day is much easier. But I disagree, its hard to constantly stay motivated to push yourself every day like that. IMO its easier to go easy and follow an easy program where you know the schedule. Also I dont push my self "Every" day to the limit, only on training days and by that I mean follow a rigorous routine.

I'm not mad or embarassed I dont mind at all. I assume it would be normal to get mad or angry over that? Before you tell someone else to improve their attitude its best to look at your own, every single dumb arguement has been started by someone else with me either defending myself or explaining why this is waste of time to argue over, I just want to stay focused on training and strength training. Everyone here seems to like to get personal, which is fine if you actually knew me or anything about me. I do honestly appreciate the help people have given me. I dont know why you all want to get in an argument here , my only suggestion and advice to you all is. Dont go assuming what someone is like without knowing them.

Aggh so much arguing is tiresome and so uncessary haha

I dont really like to argue, this is the last time I will reply to anything non training related

so lets focus on training now

[Alvaro Antolinez]

8) "le entra por una oreja y le sale por la otra" tipical spanish phrase.

Please keep posting on your goal for 40 consecutive pull ups! It is really interesting. I don't think you will have too much trouble reaching 100 push ups. Slizzard got there with 12 weeks to buds work out I think.