Sprinting speed?

[Neal Winkler]

(1) The amount of weight you use will determine whether the weight moves fast or slow, but you should always lift with the INTENTION of being explosive. So, if you are lifting really heavy the weight will move slow but you are trying to move it fast.

(2) Yes.

Finally, I would do the shrimp over the SLS, as it is harder.

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In fact, Kelly Baggett, a well known speed coach, has said that he finds mastering BW exercises like the shrimp before or during weighted exercises makes a person gain strength in the weighted exercises faster. So, you could even replace one squat (say friday) with the shrimp.

[Pablo585]

Thanks I will definately do those! But why is the shrimp harder than a SLS? Doesn't the SLS have a greater range of motion and require more balance than a shrimp?

[Joshua Naterman]

If you haven't deadlifted regularly, give yourself 2-3 weeks of slower lifting before you try and do anything explosive. You will be running a high risk of "pulling" a muscle. Same goes with any other exercise. Triangle's given you great advice, but if you try and go fast on anything before you build up slow you will run a high risk of either developing poor form and subsquent strength imbalances or injury. Possibly both. A few weeks are absolutely no time at all in the grand scheme of things, and will save you months of recovery by preventing possible training injuries. Learn to be perfect with slow movements for a few weeks, and then speed up a little each workout over the course of 3-6 workouts.

Shrimp is harder than SLS because it is lower leverage and engages the muscles differently. At the bottom of SLS, muscles flexing provide the initial momentum and elastic energy for the concentric contraction by literally pushing on each other. The hamstrings sit on the calves, and as you start going up both groups flex and provide momentum and support on the way up in the hardest stages of the SLS. The shrimp offers no such advantages. Also, I may be doing it wrong but to me the shrimp feels like it is much more heavily dependent on quad and hip strength and much less so on glutes/hamstrings, which is where I have a massive amount of strength. This is evident in the HUGE difference between my max deadlift and max full back squat. Max DL is around 500 lbs, Back Squat is around 300 and rising.

[Blairbob]

I found very similar things with the shrimp, LizMan. Right now, I prefer the SLS to shrimp for myself and my athletes.

[Joshua Naterman]

They are both important, as is full range back squat for this guy, but SLS and back squat is going to give him better results than shrimp and back squat. Doing all three shouldn't hurt anything, but I'd concentrate pretty heavily on SLS, back squat, hip thrusts, negative FL from inverted hang to dead hang, HLL, and building up to explosive deadlifts, and eventually replacing most of those explosive deadlifts with clean pulls. At least for the strength aspect of training.

Edit: The reason shrimp is less effective, even though it is harder, is that it is not loading the entire hip musculature and is therefore not developing the ability to cleanly transfer power with minimal absorption through joints. This is the same reason that full ROM back squats are so important for any sprinting activity!

[Pablo585]

Ok so I will do the SLSs instead of shrimps. Thanks a bunch again for all the help!!

[Joshua Naterman]

Let us know how your progress is over the summer!

[Neal Winkler]

If you haven't deadlifted regularly, give yourself 2-3 weeks of slower lifting before you try and do anything explosive. You will be running a high risk of "pulling" a muscle. Same goes with any other exercise. Triangle's given you great advice, but if you try and go fast on anything before you build up slow you will run a high risk of either developing poor form and subsquent strength imbalances or injury. Possibly both. A few weeks are absolutely no time at all in the grand scheme of things, and will save you months of recovery by preventing possible training injuries. Learn to be perfect with slow movements for a few weeks, and then speed up a little each workout over the course of 3-6 workouts.

Yeah, this was an oversight on my part. Just lift with control and good form at the start. Well, you should always do this, its just that as you get better you can lift with the intention of being explosive while still maintaining control and proper form.

Shrimp is harder than SLS because it is lower leverage and engages the muscles differently. At the bottom of SLS, muscles flexing provide the initial momentum and elastic energy for the concentric contraction by literally pushing on each other. The hamstrings sit on the calves, and as you start going up both groups flex and provide momentum and support on the way up in the hardest stages of the SLS. The shrimp offers no such advantages. Also, I may be doing it wrong but to me the shrimp feels like it is much more heavily dependent on quad and hip strength and much less so on glutes/hamstrings, which is where I have a massive amount of strength. This is evident in the HUGE difference between my max deadlift and max full back squat. Max DL is around 500 lbs, Back Squat is around 300 and rising.

The first couple of progressions are very easy to keep the weight on the heel and get good glute recruitment, in my experience. The final variation is when it seems to put more emphasis on the quads. This has been my experience. But, I'm not going to quibble too much about SLS vs. shrimp, as it's not a major issue in the long run. SLS is perfectly fine with me.

[Neal Winkler]

Ok so I will do the SLSs instead of shrimps. Thanks a bunch again for all the help!!

If you don't have a good set up to test some sprint times, you should at least test your broad jump. You can't tell us you can't get a tape measure!

[Pablo585]

I'll make sure to keep you guys posted! When i get home I'll do some test and post my progress on the tests at the end of the summer.

[Pablo585]

My stats as of May 26, 2010:

Tuck Front Lever: 16 sec (Goal: 25 sec, adv. tuck 10 sec)

Adv. Tuck Back Lever: 16 sec (Goal: 25 sec, straddle 5 sec)

Tuck Planche: 16 sec (Goal: 25 sec, adv. tuck 10 sec)

Wall Handstand: 1 min 15 sec (Goal: freestanding 10 sec)

Broad Jump: 7'8" (Goal: 9')

Vertical Jump: 18-22" (Goal: 30")

200m dash time: 29.33 sec (Goal: 26 sec)

400m dash time: 1 min 11 sec (Goal: 1 min 3 sec (not a priority, just for fun))

Back squat: 150lbsx3 (Goal: 230 lbs)

Deadlift: 160lbsx3 (Goal: 250 lbs )

SLS: 0 (still working on negatives) (Goal: 5)

NLC: 0 (these things are incredibly hard!) (Goal: 2)

Bench Press: 115lbsx5 (Goal: 150 lbs)

Curl: 35lbsx1 (Goal: doesn't matter, just wanna see if it increases with straight arm work)

Pullups: 8 (Goal: 15)

Chinups: 10 (Goal: 15)

HeSPU: 0 (Goal: 6)

Not too impressive... yet!

[Joshua Naterman]

Not bad! I remember when I couldn't do any HeSPU as well. It will come!

[Pablo585]

Thanks! I'm looking forward to progressing in all these!

[Blairbob]

What does NLC stand for?

[Joshua Naterman]

Natural Leg Curl

[Blairbob]

Ahh, I just call them floor glute ham.

[Coach Sommer]

Ahh, I just call them floor glute ham.

NLC, 1/2 GHR and GHR are all separate exercises.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[ASForum]

Ahh, I just call them floor glute ham.

NLC, 1/2 GHR and GHR are all separate exercises.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

I tried doing a Leg Curl -ve and I couldnt hold myself past 5 /10 degree angle from vertical. Went into hips piking and giving up on the movement.

Is there a way to do some Leg Curl progression to make it easier for a starter?

[grprahl]

I just found this post and want to quickly offer my two cents. So far everything posted seems pretty solid.

As a collegiate track and field athlete (decathlete), I can give a little input as to how most higher level track programs progress throughout the year. In the summer, athletes recover from the previous season, and start in with lower intensity strength work, lots of prehab and circuits, and steadily increasing running volume, low intensity, although we might to acceleration work one day a week starting in august.

As fall rolls around, running volume gets pretty high, but all low intensity. The lifting is higher rep (sets of 5 olympic lifts and sets of 8 squats) Some of the auxillary lifts are even higher rep, up to 12, and high rep dumbell circuits are also involved. Around late October or so we move into a strength phase. Olympic lifts go down to maybe sets of 3, squats to sets of 4-6. And technique work starts. Running volume drops down, but intensity kicks up, although all out sprinting (20-30m flys) is limited to maybe one day a week.

As it gets closer to the season, intensity keeps steadily rising as volume steadily lowers. Vaulters will generally vault 2x a week and do flyes one other day, in addition to other conditioning stuff. Lifting is still strength based, but if there's a big meet lifting will usually be downloaded during the competition week. Smaller meets get trained right through.

As the important part of the season comes up, lifting becomes speed based. Olympic lifts go to sets of 2, squats are sets of 3, lighter weights being moved as fast as possible. Download before big meets. After the season is done, rest a few weeks and repeat.

Now, its important to realize that although you want speed NOW, a better goal is to have speed during the season. Makes sense right? Given your current levels of strength and speed, I see no problem with starting strength work now instead of waiting till fall. Don't kill yourself with the running just yet though. I wouldn't do true speed work more than once a week at this point. Priority number one: Strength. This is just what others have been saying, and I'm reiterating. Strength => Power => Speed. But it takes time. You can't have speed without strength. Over the winter you can start adding more speed work, and then during the season even more. It's a gradual buildup so you don't burnout or peak at the wrong time.

[Blairbob]

NLC, 1/2 GHR and GHR are all separate exercises.

My apologies, I believe I come across NLC as floor glute ham before GB. Old habits die hard.