Sprinting speed?

[Pablo585]

As a pole vaulter and sprinter at my school, I need to be a fast sprinter. Right now I have a pretty embarassing time for the 200 and need to gain speed to jump higher in pole vaulting. I am planning on starting a summer training schedule and need some input to bring up my speed as fast as possible.

Monday:

FL

BL

PL

HS

HeSPU

Sprints

Tuesday:

Deadlift

Maybe squat

Wenesday:

Light Plyometrics

FL

BL

PL

HS

Thursday:

NLC

Pistols

Friday:

FL

BL

PL

HS

HeSPU

Sprints

What do you guys think of this program? I mostly need to gain speed but also some upper body strength. I will also be including sprints with a pole with normal sprints and high bar work on upper body days.

Thanks!

[Neal Winkler]

(1) Your program lacks balance between pushing and pulling. Is your pulling strength more advanced than pushing? This is the only reason you would have such an imbalance.

(2) Read the following article.

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/speedtraining.html

There are some new exercises that will be good for you that have come out since this article was written, but this will give you an overview of the basics for developing speed.

I can help you more later after you educate yourself more. There are many other articles on the site you should read.

[Blairbob]

You need to some pullups.

Push-pulls on a swiss ball are a good idea. Basically you will lean to planche then push to superman and then back to planche. It's similar to doing straight arm barbell or dumbbell lifts or doing them with bands. A bit similar to chest flies.

As a PV, just like a gymnast you need a crapload of torso strength. Hanging Leg lifts, Inverted situps, skin the cats. Body lever is a good skill since many polevaulters will train a free/clear hip circle 1/2 turn.

We used to swing a lot of PB to HS then stutz dismount. Lots of long hang pullovers.

[Pablo585]

@trianglechoke

I included pullups, cast swings, and bubkas in high bar work and thought that those and others would fit into the pulling category.

And thanks for the article. Are you trying to say that I should focus on strength until I stagnate? Would doing bodyweight only leg exercises increase my strength to bodyweight ratio better than squatting and deadlifting?

@Blairbob

Where would I incorporate those into my routine? I don't want to get rid of statics but I don't want the workout to take to long.

[Neal Winkler]

Whether or not you need to focus on strength vs. plyos/speed work depends on which you are more deficient on. If your strength levels are not high, then you will do well to just focus on that first. Pistols can be used as a single leg exercise but should not be your main lift.

The following exercises should be incorporated into your program: barbell squats, deadlifts, single leg exercise (pistol, lunge, bulgarian split squat, shrimp, ect), weighted glute bridges, hip thrusts, quadruped hip extensions, leg curl variations (NLC, GHR).

Sample exercise selection:

Tues -

Light plyos

Deadlifts

Lunges

Hip thrusts

Fri -

Sprints

Squats

weighted glute bridge

NLC

[Pablo585]

Ok thanks I will try to work something out of those exercises.

I have one question though: your sample program only has me doing sprints only once a week. Would I be able to do sprints and strength training on monday and friday and light plyos on wednesday? My coach keeps saying that I need to run a lot of sprints with and without the pole at this point, and I really trust his choices for me.

[Blairbob]

To note, according to your program, you have almost no bent arm exercises. You are probably still working a lot of pulling by just polevaulting though.

What's your 200 time, what's your 100 or 40 time?

Ahh, I remember the bubka's. That works instead of a HLL sorta as well as a hang pull to FL/candle.

How long is the workout taking?

As a polevaulter, I would like to know what you can run and jump at currently.

Squats and deads sound fine but for your time, the olympic lifts would be suitable as well.

[Pablo585]

I am a really slow sprinter. My 200 and 400 were my only timed races this year because I got shin splints mid season. I also only ran each of them twice. My 400 was around a 1:11 and 200 was 29.33 ( )

I haven't started this workout yet, but if I do all of my statics for a minute each, then some HeSPUs, sprints, and high bar could take around an hour and a half :shock: . It's doable since it will be summer, but I would prefer shorter ones.

[Blairbob]

This summer? If you had time, I'd split up the workouts.

Hmm, the times, they're ok but nothing great. Do you think it's a matter of just strength-endurance? That's why I asked for the 40 time. That will basically tell me if you're explosive or not.

A horizontal or vertical jump is another good test for that.

I'd split work into HB and sprints and then gymnastics strength later on.

[Pablo585]

Sorry I don't know my 40 time. I don't have a place or tool I can measure out 40 meters accurately with.

My vertical is somewhere around 22-26 inches.I know this because my standing reach is about 7'4" and I can reach a little less than half-way up a basketball net.

I'm not positive about this one either, but my standing long jump is about 7.5-8'.

And you think I should do high bar and sprints in the morning and gymnastics strength in the afternoon/evening then? That sounds good for me.

So how does this sound for my high bar routine (mon/wed/fri):

3 HLL to toes

3 HLL to shins

3 HLL to knees

3 HLL to as high as possible (these will help me work up to perfect bubkas)

4 sets of as many knee drive/trail leg swings as I can at once

Appropriate kip progressions (have any advice? I'm having trouble finding progressions I can do by myself)

2 sets of stalders

2 sets of windshield wipers

2 sets of negative muscle-ups

Sprinting (mon/fri):

2x20m sprints

2x40m sprints

2x60m sprints

2x20m sprints w/ pole

2x40m sprints w/ pole

2x60m sprints w/ pole

Rest/cooldown(every day): 50 plant drills with pole

And stretch

That seems like it would be best for me. The high bar stuff is mostly strength elements for now, once I get a coach I will move onto more technical elements.

Gymnastics strength (mon/wed/fri):

10min of handstand work

10x6sec BL

10x6sec PL

10x6sec FL

On mondays: pullups and HeSPUs

Wednesdays: push-pulls and body levers

Fridays: pullups and HeSPUs

Light plyos (wed):

tuck jumps

bounding

calf hops

other things i can't think of

[Blairbob]

It sounds a lot better than we did back in the day.

[Pablo585]

Ok, thanks a lot for all the help!

[Neal Winkler]

In your last post, you have no strength work for lower body?

[Pablo585]

Oops, I forgot that! Thanks for reminding me.

I will pair this with Gymnastic Strength Training™ in the afternoon/evening:

Monday:

Deadlift

Lunges

Pistol progressions

Friday:

Squat

Bulgarian Split Squat

NLC negatives

Would this be enough for my legs?

[Blairbob]

M&F start working some SLS or FS/BS/DL.

[Pablo585]

Blairbob,

Those are what I mentioned in the previous post.

[Joshua Naterman]

You really, really, really do not want to do very many regular deadlifts as a sprinter. You want to do lots of clean pulls, OR explosive deadlift pulls. Like, to where you come all the way up to your toes because you're pulling so fast. You may need SOME strength training for that, but you're better off doing fast, lighter pulls right from the start. Just don't start full speed. Give yourself 2-3 weeks of steadily working up to all-out pulls. Power cleans will also help you IMMENSELY if you learn how to do them right. If that training isn't available, sandbag throwing or tire throwing and kettlebell swings together are the next best thing. For the throwing, you're going to be chucking things backwards over your head as hard as you can. Start light, around 5-10 lbs. Medicine balls work well if you have them. If not, just fill a bag with dirt and tape the hell out of it.

3x a week should be fine. Remember, you're not training for size, you're training for performance. You should be operating almost exclusively on relative strength protocols. That's sets taking 20 seconds at the MOST. 3-6 reps, depending on speed and exercise.

For squats, you are wasting your time unless you go ass to ground at least 60% of the time. Full ROM builds hip strength which is what you need for lower body explosive expression in track events. Realistically, this will be as far down as you can go. Your butt will never actually touch the floor, but your hamstrings should be pressed as firmly as possible into your calves with as straight a back as possible. Lower slowly, 3-4 seconds, until you can NOT go any lower. Then explode up as fast as possible. At first it won't be much of an explosion, and it may never seem explosive at the very bottom, but you want to be picking up speed as quickly as possible. If you jump at the top that's fine if you can move that fast!

[Neal Winkler]

Pablo, what is your weight and max full squat?

If you have a poor strength to weight ratio you should prioritize strength (max strength training) over speed (plyos, explosive lifting).

I look at some pole vaulting and I noticed that they run the entire length with a very upright posture. This means that pole vaulting speed has more emphasis on glutes/hams over quads/glutes/calves. The latter is associated more with leaning forward acceleration and vertical jumping.

I would also suggest that your explosive training be more horizontal than vertical nature. Examples of horizontal plyos is broad jumps, single leg triple jumps, ect. Just anything where you are going forward rather than upward. Vertical is depth drops followed by jumping up on a box, olympic lifting, ect. Things where you are applying force upwards.

While you still need quad and calves strength, I highly recommend that you include the horizontal exercises I mentioned such as hip thrusts.

Just to be clear, my recommendation that you prioritize strength over speed is assuming that your problem is a lack of relative strength. If that is so, doing a lot explosive exercises is not going to be very productive as you must first build up the size of your engine (force production) before you make it more efficient (increasing the speed at which you can generate force which is what plyos and other explosive exercises are best for).

[Pablo585]

I am 140lbs. and the most I have squatted is 150x3 before I was going for all out strength in January (I was told to do more endurance stuff at the time, but I got bored and did a little strength). I do all my exercises as explosively as I can.

I also don't think I can do power cleans because I don't have bumper plates and I don't want to drop metal plates on a concrete floor. I have an 8lb. medicine ball that I can use to do throws in my backyard. I am also planning on starting explosive squats (all the way down) and deadlifts by perfecting form at first (100-115lbs). I'll work my way up from there.

What if I changed my program like this? I would just change lunges to hip thrusts to focus on my glutes/hams a little more.

Monday:

Deadlift

Hip thrusts

Pistol progressions

Friday:

Squat

Bulgarian Split Squat

NLC negatives

Trianglechoke, just curious, why would I want to focus on strength instead of explosiveness if I'm trying to get faster? Is it just so when I do get faster I'll be able to use more force?

And slizzardman, why do you say no regular deadlifts?

I seem to be getting contradicting POVs here :? .

[Blairbob]

Liz, have you seen this?

http://www.dragondoor.com/articler/mode3/269/

Sprinting does not have an equal when it comes to ft lbs of force PSI. Yes, oly and plyo are up there.

A 150x3 BS. You need to up that, by a lot.

Thing is polevaulting really isn't a pure sprint. There is this long pole that gets in the way. It's more accelerate into the stride jump. It's almost a series of bounding.

Single leg series jumping is a very good idea.

You have the summer.

DL+SLS (hopefully get to the point you can start doing these with weight and plyometrically). I would say alternate BS/DL while doing the SLS maybe. Make sure you're doing glute-ham work+hip thrusts.

I'm still wary about the BS because of hypertrophy.

I won't say you need to BS/DL, but it's not a bad idea for the summer besides they will make you strong as hell. So long as you aren't on a mass gain diet, you don't need to worry about size increase except eating enough so you don't fall apart. Keep up with the plyos

[Neal Winkler]

Pablo,

My suspicion was confirmed. The reason you are slow is because you are too weak.

The reason you need focus more on strength work than speed work is because you are unable to apply enough force into the ground.

Sprinting speed is determined by the amount of force that you can apply to the ground in the limited amount of time that your foot is in contact with the ground relative to your own body weight. Let's say that during a pole vaulting run up that your foot is in contact with the ground for .3 seconds. The fastest person is going to be the person who can apply the most force in .3 seconds relative to their bodyweight. Now, take two people of the same weight with the following characteristics,

(A) Max Force that can be applied to the ground - 350lbs

Max force that can be applied in .3 seconds - 175lbs

(B) Max force that can be applied to the ground - 160lbs

Max force that can be applied in .3 seconds - 120lbs.

Which person will run faster? Person A because they apply more force to the ground in .3 seconds. A difference between the two is that (A) can only apply 50% of his max force in .3 seconds but (B) can apply a much higher % of their max force in .3 seconds. It doesn't matter for (B) because their max strength is so low that it's set a low ceiling for how much force they can apply in .3 seconds. (B) is like your situation except I don't know what % of your max force you can apply during a stride.

Each scenario tells us what the person needs to do to get faster. (A) needs to improve how much force he can apply in .3 seconds (explosive lifting, plyos, ect) and (B) needs to get stronger so they can raise the ceiling on how much force can be applied in .3 seconds (heavy weight training).

Make sense?

[Blairbob]

If you remember one of the founding principles of BtGB is building strength to train for power later on. You'll also notice it's a similar principle in StartingStrength. Most of have heard the old Russian principle of a 1.5 or 2xBW BS before plyo training.

I would have liked to see a 50 time because even in the 100/200 there is a fight for strength endurance. Fortunately, in PV and V in gymnastics, the run is around 25 yards or meters. It's not really that long. I think it used to be longer for polevault but that was around 13 years ago. It's also interesting to note PV approach speeds are much faster than men's gymnastic vault speeds. Some data showed the men being shy of 8m/s, the women being around 7.5 and PV like Bubka being just under 10m/s.

Keep in mind, Triangle, Pablo may have not done enough speed training in his career so far. Bounding, sprinting and plyometric training. I wonder if he has not built up his squat due to time under the bar or just not progressively loading.

However, not even getting up to a BW DL is something that needs to be rectified. Both lifts will develop a lot of trunk strength and that is really important when it comes to sprinting. I may not have been DLing when I was a PV but I remember doing snatch pulls with over 225 and even more with clean pulls. Grip did play an issue (no hook grip).

On a funny note, the fastest boy in the gym who is probably one of the fastest kids in the gym is probably also one of the weakest. He can do like 1 skin the cat and a very short L-sit/hang. Then again he is quite long legged and it's a just a matter of time before he gets tall. Yes, his form isn't very pretty (not that coordinated in a cartwheel) but he can RUN! To note, he is one of the best boys at SLS as his brother. I'd take them against any of the girls but that's because the girls haven't been taught properly how to do them and they whine about them. Both of them can BW DL+, even the weaker one.

Actually, I should race him tomorrow. And his little brother because his little brother is only a step off him. Generally we test a 20m run because the women's program tests the 20m (they like a time of 4-4.5s which I find is a crawl but it depends on size). Some of my tiny 6yo who run well can hit 4.5s-5s. A lot of the time they don't get the whole sprint concept (unless you run after them-sometimes). We also don't have a lot of room to test more and we run into the pit doing a long jump or dive roll so we don't risk an ankle or knee twist when we hit the resi-pit and avoid a collision with the wall (or mat against it).

[Pablo585]

Ok so do you want me to get on a mon/wed/fri lower body strength schedule? I think that would help me the most. Should I lift slowly or explosively?

And what about sprinting? My brother and coaches really want me to keep them in so I can develop better running form and coordination with the pole. Should I also do the light plyos?

Blairbob, I have not built up my squat very much yet due to not very much time under the bar. I did it about once a week for a few months in the fall and winter. I also do have a 160x3 DL, and I have only trained those a few times.

Do you guys have a sample of an ideal lower body schedule for me at this point?

[Neal Winkler]

I think Mon/Wed/Fri would be fine for you.

Yes, sprint practice is fine. I would leave out the plyos. Sprinting is plyometric and will be enough. You don't want to do too much as you need to save energy for strength work.

You should lift heavy. Do 8-10 reps for maybe a month to work on form then move down to 5's. I would do two lower body exercises per workout.

Something like this:

Mon - Squat 3x8

Hip thrusts 3x20 (only initially with BW, after adding weight the reps won't be that high)

Wed - Deadlifts 3x10

NLC 3x10

Fri - Squat 3x8

Lunge 2x10 each leg

You could do that for like a month. Of course you also have to ad in some abs and upper body work. You can't do too much. Pick like one push and one pull and one ab.

Bump the weights up every week.

You may want to keep your sprint work to practice with running with the pole. Remember, don't do too much. If you can't bump up the weight every week then you are exceeding your recovery capacity.

On the hip thrusts, you have to start out with BW only until you get the proper form. Then you can add weight. Here's an instructional video:

hCm-70-9_XE

[Pablo585]

Thanks trianglechoke!

I think those exercises will suit me best. I will be gone for a week at a time a few weeks over the summer, so I will just do some SLSs and maybe NLCs if I can find a good place.

I'll cut the sprinting down to mon/fri:

1x20m

1x40m

1x60m

2x20m w/ pole

2x40m w/ pole

2x60m w/ pole

I have two last questions though:

1. Do you want me to lift explosively or slowly?

2. Do you want me to increase weight as much as I can while I work on form the first month without decreasing reps?