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Leigh Kettle

Elbow injury Treatment methods

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Leigh Kettle

Hey guys

ive posted before regarding my current elbow concerns (in both elbows) and have taken advice from you by getting X Ray's seeking specialists etc . 

I went to see my local physiotherapist who advertised in joint issues and sports injuries so thought I would receive the advice / diagnosis /treatment I was after. 

however upon my first visit and subsequently my second visit yesterday she started using acupuncture. I have no knowledge on this subject so thought I would ask your advice . To me this seems like some kind of alternative treatment that has no real scientific substance to it . Am I wasting my time (and money)with this kind of treatment. I've felt no difference at all in how my elbows feel after both sessions and have to say was somewhat surprised that this was even used by a physio therapist as I assumed I would only get this kind of treatment if I specifically went to an accupunture clinic. is this common place now a days? She has also taped them up with kt and again what good this is doing I've no idea. 

My our advice would be much appreciated as always 

Many thanks 

Leigh 

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Julian Aldag

What was the official diagnosis?  And are you receiving Chinese acupuncture or dry needling? Different things. 

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Mark Schoenhard

I've had success with acupuncture, but the doctor I had also did chiropractic adjustments, massage and prescribed rest, self-massage treatment, and therapies (ice, heat, ointment, mobility, stretching and strengthening).  The acupuncture definitely decreased inflammation, I believe that is it's purpose. 

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Leigh Kettle

Hi julian

i haven't actually had a specific diagnosis. It seems to be baffling anyone I mention it to.  Just as a btw, I have no pain doing push ups ring rows etc (foundation) but there seems to be something going on in the joint at both ends of rom of the joint (fully extended and fully flexed) I get a slight burning sensation inside the elbow (at approx the top of the crease of the elbow ) whenever I sustain a straight arm hold and particularly when i release the straight arm and on the flip side if I were to suddenly bring my arm into a full bend quickly that hurts also. But not much else does as I say.. 

She did call it dry needling. She also put an electric current between 2 of the needles on each elbow . I had needles apparently at each of the 4 gates :-/.  Felt somewhere between someone on death row and a pin cushion neither of which I was planning on feeling when visiting a specialist which is why i wanted to get feedback if this is the norm nowadays . 

 

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Leigh Kettle

The pic below is how she taped me up using the kt . The Pound coin is the point at which I tend to feel the pain when I put pressure there. And Both elbows roughly the same issue 

 

image.jpeg

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Julian Aldag

Im assuming the X-ray didn't show anything. Have you been able to get an MRI?

Food for thought:   I've got a low grade chronic elbow injury. Unfortunately Its something I have to manage for the time being (job related). My MRI showed inflammation in the fossa joint (If I remember correctly). I got a cortisone injection which didn't help a bit. But interestingly enough, what has been a major help is bi weekly treatments (We have physios at work) of graston and trigger point release around the scapular and tricep insertion. You elbow pain could be a symptom of something downstream instead of the primary issue.

 

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Leigh Kettle

No the X Ray showed no abnormalities . The physio said if nothing improves over the next few weeks she would write to doctor to get me an ultrasound first . 

Are your symptons  similar to mine then julian? 

I agree it could well be something referring pain but I don't seem to have anyone that has confirmed this one way or another yet lol . Self massage seems to help short term but it never seems to go away . My training since starting gst is 5 percent of what it used to be so I'm hoping this will all help my recovery . As I said there never seems to be pain when training the elements I'm training at the moment .only Scap shrugs for the mastery set caused an issue. As I haven't passed mobility on this pairing of this yet  I've just reduced the amount of Scap shrugs I do so there is no pain as 5x15 is a bit much for me at present 

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Julian Aldag

Symptoms are a little similar but my discomfort is behind the elbow on the tricep side.  I've a little swelling in the joint which is causing impingement during full extension of the elbow and also sometimes discomfort during pullups depending on the angle of the elbows (doesn't like close grip).

I missed your initial post regarding your elbow. Did it start aching over time? sudden injury? You were pushing too hard? What brought it on in the first place? 

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Leigh Kettle

Ah ok . Mine Def seems to be in different area . I've never had swelling or anything . I used to get sore after muscle ups on both bar and rings and training the tiger bend push up used to cause issues but back then not being as informed as I am now I just put it down to something id overcome . Just before I started gst in October I quit all my calisthenics training and went right back to basics as my Elbows were sore . I then did a 30sec handstand hold and when I released from the hold the burning was immense even tho I hadn't touched pull ups muscle ups etc for weeks . This is when I knew something was wrong . 

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Coach Sommer

Hi Leigh,

Appears to be classic overtraining from too much volume and intensity in your previous workouts.  

The good news is, IF you stop aggravating them, the elbows will almost certainly heal.  Something to consider is that a 30sec handstand is the equivalent of 15reps with full bodyweight.  

The bad news is it is probably going to take a minimum of 6+ months to resolve and heal.  My own serious elbow/forearm injury took 18 months.  12 months to mostly pain free and then an additional 6 months to be completely pain free.

Remember that it took quite some time to damage the joint and now it is going to take quite some time to heal.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Leigh Kettle

Thank you so much for you advice coach

yes I completely understand I over trained too much and it's gonna take time to put right. 

Can i just ask a couple of things . ..

1. when you say aggravate , I am performing my foundation work and now more recently  my thoracic bridge work with no pain (maybe only the most minor  sensation that there is a problem) is this ok or is this what you would call aggravating them . As I say in terms of pain I can perform the exercises fine with at worst a 2 out of 10 "discomfort"

2. Ive literally just seen an osteopath who did some massage work and looked at my whole upper Body balance etc. is this kind of treatment necessary as an addition to gst or will my slow methodical approach I'm now on with gst be enough to help me get to the pain free stage .

Many thanks in advance coach really appreciate it 

Leigh 

 

 

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Tanya Hill

Hi Leigh, 

The Foundation One course will help you build the supporting muscles and will help the elbow in the healing process.

Never work through pain when it comes to the elbows. ;) 

I am a strong believer in bodywork. Maintaining a solid massage routine goes a long way. Id definitely keep this up. 

 

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Leigh Kettle

Hi tanya

many thanks for your reply

i wanted to make sure I wasn't wasting my money with seeing these guys because at £40 a week it's becoming a very expensive thing to do if you guys didn't think it was completely necessary .i  Have to say I still haven't seen anyone osteopath/physio or otherwise  who fills me with any confidence they actually know what is wrong with my elbows which is very frustrating as you can imagine not only with me wanting to move forwards with my gst training but also financially 

kindest regards 

 

Leigh 

 

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Coach Sommer

Hello Leigh,

Where are you located?  Perhaps either I or one of my senior students knows a good osteopath in your area.

In response to your other question, the bottom line is if it hurts at all at this stage you are working too hard.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

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Leigh Kettle

Hey coach 

once again Many thanks for taking your time to respond . Kind of spooky as I've literally just been listening to one of your podcasts again (almost know them word for word lol) 

I am based in the uk in the midlands 

Incidentally The only time I get the burning sensation is during Scap push ups when I'm maintaining the straight arm lock  for a longer period of time (eg 12-15 rep range ). Then when I release from the straight arm it feels like it burns and is tight combined. Both elbows equally .

However  When I do push ups and lock at the top it's fine . And ring rows also are fine . What I've done is backed off on the Scap shrugs reps although I'm not near  passing the mobility of this one anytime soon anyway so it's ok lol .

seems to be a very perculiar injury That is baffling the "experts" in my locality 

kindest regards 

Leigh 

 

 

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Bas Albinus

"she started using acupuncture. I have no knowledge on this subject so thought I would ask your advice . To me this seems like some kind of alternative treatment that has no real scientific substance to it . Am I wasting my time (and money)with this kind of treatment"
@Leigh Kettle
Living in China and Taiwan for the last 8years I received a good number of acupuncture sessions. It helped me a lot to recover and heal w/o taking painkillers or cortisone. Common thing in the orthopedic dep. of Chinese Hospitals is adding heat to the treatment by putting cotton balls on the needles and setting them on fire. They simmer for ca 20mins and the heat goes deep into the muscles, joints and trigger points. Afterwards the doc would give you a brief acupressure massage and/or wrap the injury with a hot herbal patch. Repeat every 2-3 days and within 3-5 treatments  the symptoms esp all pain would be gone.
I've never had electricity added to the needles, so no idea what that's like - but here's a pic of my roasting session after overextending my elbow over and over again during boxing. Ask your physio for that. Best treatment I ever received to release muscle tension and joint aches.

needles on fire01.jpg

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