My Current Focus: HBP/PE2

I don't know why I didn't ask this before. But what is your diet looking like if you don't mind me asking? Maybe you're fighting yourself on that end.

Alexander Egebak said:

Although

people here provide a lot of good ideas to experiment with it is also important to stick to one way and being consistent in doing so in order to see the effects of that exact strategy.

Alexander Egebak said:

Although people here provide a lot of good ideas to experiment with it is also important to stick to one way and being consistent in doing so in order to see the effects of that exact strategy.

Yup, absolutely.

I give every change at least 2 months before deciding whether it's working or not. Sometimes a few months.

-Nash

i haven't read the whole topic, but i think many people struggling at 6-9 reps had understimated mastery of Pe1. If you (generic) mastery Pe1 with nice and solid hollowbody position hips height or a bit lower, slow tempo and stop at top in protraction really easily without any struggling i doubt you would find so much hard Pe2. They are very similar exercises after all, so i bet 80% of people struggling with Pe2 should check again their Pe1

Dani88 said:

i haven't read the whole topic, but i think many people struggling at 6-9 reps had understimated mastery of Pe1. If you (generic) mastery Pe1 with nice and solid hollowbody position hips height or a bit lower, slow tempo and stop at top in protraction really easily without any struggling i doubt you would find so much hard Pe2. They are very similar exercises after all, so i bet 80% of people struggling with Pe2 should check again their Pe1

That is what I recently did. I thought I mastered PE1 long time before but I faced some struggles. I think that now I actually mastered PE1 as I can do well over 15 reps of each set of PE1 now. Before that I was in a never ending struggle with PE2 between 4x12 and 5x15. I hope things will change now.

Today: 13r, 13r, 13r, 12r, 12r

Total Reps: 63

Notes:

 - Taking an extra breath or two at the top position when needed during last 2 sets.

 - This workout was tough. Last rep took some massive determination to complete and was very shaky at best. 

 - Could barely complete last iM due to fatigue from workout.

This thread is both awesome (because of your commitment and progres, Nash, and the push up PHD material) and also sort of demotivating.  It's leading me to feel like the default rep programming is insufficient or something that I'll need to be constantly toying with. 

How many folks follow the program line-for-line and have success?  Or is it that everyone does a certain degree of experimentation, and thats just the norm?

Paul Clay said:

 

How many folks follow the program line-for-line and have success?  Or is it that everyone does a certain degree of experimentation, and thats just the norm?

Hi Paul,

Thanks!

After 2 years into this here's my take on the templates at this point (might change in the future):

- They tell you the mastery requirement.

- They give you a rough guide with a built-in failure mechanism, i.e repeating mini-cycles, to achieve the mastery requirement.

- They're great if you already have the potential strength required to master the movement and they'll bring that strength out.

- They don't do a good job if you lack some fundamental strength. You can go on repeating block B for many months without any intrinsic progress.

After a while you'll start to know whether the template will sail you through to mastery (even with repeating some mini-cycles) or whether you'll have to use other methods to achieve it.

My presumption is that most people start out with the templates, but eventually hit a movement that will require some creativity to master.

What Nash said. I've only seen serious sticking points like this in PEs 1-3. Specifically pushups, straddle ups, and arch body (which has been changed). There's a weak link somewhere. It was obliques for arch body, pancak-ish mobility and active flexibility for straddle ups, and for this, I'm thinking triceps. Maybe chest.

I've had to repeat blocks several times on other elements, but progress was clear each time. These are more like a grind.

Did you ever try putting pushups at the beginning of your routine? If it really is lagging, then make that the focus.

I'm guessing your shoulders and core are gassing first from plank and hollow work. And because those muscles are fatigued, it's harder for you to do your controlled pressing.

Seldom are the bigger chest muscles the weak link. Not until the smaller muscles catch up.

Nick Roy said:

I'm guessing your shoulders and core are gassing first from plank and hollow work. And because those muscles are fatigued, it's harder for you to do your controlled pressing.

Seldom are the bigger chest muscles the weak link. Not until the smaller muscles catch up.

Yes, I start my F1 with pushups. My weak link is my shoulders. Front side. They're catching up.

My bad, I was actually referring to the others who were struggling. I'm all aboard the Nash cheer train lol.

Few tips for this progression: Try to do the movement without getting a pump. (only possible if you do the movement morning while fasted). Secondly make sure that in the bottom position you are using external rotation and your arms are at 90 degree angle.

Nick Roy said:

My bad, I was actually referring to the others who were struggling. I'm all aboard the Nash cheer train lol.

LOL. I didn't mean to sound curt there.

I’ve been following the thread since some months (GON NASH!) as also I have been struggling with the progression and I would like to add my two cents here:

Today is the first time I’ve done 5x15. Big effort, completely exhausted, racing heart at the end of the last set and last reps where shaky, so no mastery yet, but super close. The thing is I was on the 12-13 reps range every workout and then the last two workouts I’ve focused in two things that made me jump from the 12-13 to the 15.

1.       As I’ve started meditating during the last 4 months, I’ve gained lots of focus on all my daily activities, including GST. I’m super focused, recruiting all my muscles and with my entire attention on the training, no distraction, my attention only in pushing and breathing.

2.       As I did some powerlifting the last year, I recall holding my breath during the eccentric phase of the bench press and then breathing out at the top of the movement, same tempo always, and applied that to my pushups.

Hope that helps!

Nash said:

Yes, I start my F1 with pushups. My weak link is my shoulders. Front side. They're catching up.

Have you considered strength work either using strict barbell overhead presses or their bodyweight equivalents (like piked headstand pushups or with feet elevated on a box)?

Enkidu said:

Have you considered strength work either using strict barbell overhead presses or their bodyweight equivalents (like piked headstand pushups or with feet elevated on a box)?

Yup. Since your first post in this thread, I've been dabbling with elevated pushups (coffee table height). Doing 10 every day. I'm testing what effect this has before going 3 sets x Max a couple of times a week.

Nash said:

Yup. Since your first post in this thread, I've been dabbling with elevated pushups (coffee table height). Doing 10 every day. I'm testing what effect this has before going 3 sets x Max a couple of times a week.

Awesome!

Just remember tho, you want to keep the resistance challenging.  Once you are able to do 3-5x5-8 it is probably time to increase to a harder progression.  The idea is to increase maximal strength, not to do a second endurance movement.

Enkidu said:

Awesome!

 

Just remember tho, you want to keep the resistance challenging.  Once you are able to do 3-5x5-8 it is probably time to increase to a harder progression.  The idea is to increase maximal strength, not to do a second endurance movement.

Good point. I think I'll increase the elevation by a foot (one stall bar) whenever I can do 3x8 a few times easily. I'm assuming until I'm almost vertical.

Today: 13r, 13r, 13r, 13, 10r

Total Reps: 62

Notes:

 - Skipped last week due to business travel. This could have affected today's results. Plus, feeling weak as if about to get sick. Everyone around me is on NyQuil.

 - Collapsed while attempting 11. 

What fixed this for me : slow movement on the eccentric, eyes closed, using hyper-irradiation principles and taking care that my elbows are well stacked over my wrists, absolutely flawless form (lockout top, zero sagging, nipples  crotch and shin touching the floor at the same time on lowest portion). Doing it on mondays and thursdays.

Holding the push-up stance arms bent at 90° with elbows well stacked over wrists and eyes closed here too, following the normal BtBG 5*60s progression on tuesdays and fridays, with 1 min rest between sets.

I figured I needed to up my volume on this exercise but felt my poor recovery wouldn't allow for more than twice a week without degrading form which led me to using isometric contraction (minimal muscle exertion and still triggering adaptation from soft-tissue and nervous system). I use the same principle to own RC/PE1 with holding stance at the top and exerting maximal iso contraction (as a nice side effect, my arms have never been so big). The burn on the spot is absolutely horrible but it doesn't quite cut deep into recovery as the movement does (so more like a mental thing, specally forearms on RC/PE and shoulders a bit on PE2).

Gotta be a bit masochist for this but works well, hope this helps, godspeed

Today: 13r, 13r, 13r, 13, 12r

Total Reps: 64

Notes:

- My rule now is stay at up position until I know that I can push back up

- I'm actually starting to enjoy the pain.

-Nash

FWIW, I looked over your posts from the past few months, and even if your progress is slow, it is decidedly present, and trending in the right direction. Have you tried Naterman's Perfect Nutrition plan? I started it about 8 weeks ago and results look good (hard to say conclusively it was diet of course ... but it'd be worth trying along with everything else).