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Killroy 70 Beginner template

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#1 killroy70


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Posted 18 April 2009 - 06:53 AM

I've been a member of the list since I started my BtGB program this past January 09.

I began with a very basic program, working out 4 days/week and working four static positions every day, which included:
1) planche variations
2) BL variations
3) FL variations
4) Handstand work

After I finish my static work for a given workout, which generally consisted of 7-10 sets of each movement, the remainder of my workout looked like this:

Day 1 - horizontal plane pushing and pulling FBE
Day 2 - curling (inverted pullup) and dipping variations (RTO dips, etc..) FBE
Day 3 - pullup and HeSPU variation FBE
Day 4 - multiplane pulling variaions + varied pressing work

Anyway, I didn't want to get into anything that I considered even remotely advanced until I had become somewhat proficient in some of these exercises. Just to give an idea of progress, I'll give a quick list of where I began with the FSP (very first workout) and where I'm at now (i.e. yesterday's workout):
1) Planche variations: Frog stand 12 sec hold; tuck plance 10 sets of 8 sec holds
2) BL variations: tuck BL 8 second hold (VERY difficult, uncomfortable); FULL BL 10 sets of 4 sec holds (plus some reversals out of the BL to an inverted hang)
3) FL variations: Tuck FL 10 sec hold; 1/2 FL (one leg fully extended, one tucked, alternating e/set) 10 sets 4 sec holds (5 holds/leg)
4) Handstand work: couldn't even get into a handstand; kicking up into a handstand, using the wall as a "spotter", and working 10 sets of 20+ second holds (at the 20 second-mark, I'd stop using the wall as a spotter and go for as long as I can free standing)
**5**) When I started I was training the L-sit, but I felt it was really compromising my FL work, however, when I started I could not hold a floor L-sit for even 1 second; Yesterday, I tested and held a pretty good V-sit for a full 10 seconds. Surprised the hell out of my self!
**6**) One other area of very surprising progress: When I began, I couldn't do one since XR muscle up (even after devoting nearly 8 months of Crossfit work last year, no ring muscle ups achieved). Yesterday, I performed 15 single non-kipping muscle ups. They weren't perfect, pure-strength slow muscle ups, as there was a bit of leg movement, but definitely nothing that resembled a "kip."

Anyway, looking through my logs for the last couple of months, I'm pretty stunned at my progress following coach sommer's progressions.

Ok, on to the point of my post!.....

I'd like to begin working the basic ring strength series, which for me would look like:
-muscle up to support -->backwords roll -->inverted hang-->back lever-->inverted hang-->1/2 front lever-->down

What's the best way to work this into my program? As I stated above, for the last couple of months its been the 4 FSP's followed by 2 FBE, 4 days/week. There are some other things I'd like to begin working on as well, such as 360 pulls, which I imagine I could probably use them as a substitute for my static FL/BL work, perhaps embedding FL/BL statics into each 360 pull.

Should I perhaps substitute some FBE for the basic ring strength series maybe 2x/week?

I guess this post is getting a little long, as always, any feedback would be appreciated.
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#2 venobre


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Posted 24 April 2009 - 11:20 AM

amazing strength gains,did you gain muscle also?are the gains as amazing as the strength ones?
thansk and congrats again!

#3 jules


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Posted 24 April 2009 - 04:38 PM

First of all, congrats with your progress!!

Besides the muscle up and the back-roll (which by the sounds of it you wont have a problem) the basic strength series is very similar to the 360o pulls (without the full ROM).

One workout you could do the basic strength series, the next workout the 360o pulls (i recommend doing them with your current static progressions).

Would you have to substitute them for your static sets? that depends of your current level of fitness. ( I know i can do my static sets, followed by 360o pulls, and then finish up with dragon flags and still feel good at the end.)

You can do both with the pulls. Either place them after your static hold and do them dynamically, or hold the static position in each pull instead of doing them separately.

Hope that helps!

#4 Mats Trane

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 07:24 AM

This was a very inspiering post! Great progress!
Whats FBE stand for?

#5 killroy70


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Posted 27 April 2009 - 04:11 AM

Thanks for the comments and suggestions!

To answer the first question, yes, I've gained a decent amount of lean mass. It's funny, too, because the majority of the volume of my training has been geared towards the static positions (lots of focus on creating a strong base to move on from). I have no doubt that I've gained more upper body lean mass, especially in my arms and shoulders, from my BtGB program than I have in the same time period using weight training - even programs geared primarily for mass gain. However, I should state that gaining "weight" is not my goal. Ideally, I'd stay around 195 lbs (currently at around 200) and increase my strength while slowly lowering my BF%. Obviously performing the majority of the gymnastic static and dynamic exercises would increase in difficulty at a higher bodyweight.

And FBE stand for "Fundamental bodyweight exercises." It's the abbreviation used by Coach Sommer in his BtGB book.

And Jules - you were right about the backward rolls, after attempting a few and getting used to the movement, it became relatively easy. I also believe I have the work capacity to go through my static training and finish my workout with a few ring series and/or 360 pulls.

Last week was my "back off" week - just 2 workouts with 2/3 the volume. So I'm eager to get back to it, time to workout...

#6 venobre


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Posted 27 April 2009 - 06:31 AM

thanks for your answer.

since we're about the same weight i was wondering if you've had troubles when going to the advanced frog position cause it's very hard for me even do i'm doing well in the other levers ,i thought it was because of my weight.

so if you or anybody else has an answer or a tip it would be a great help!

thanks again and i hope everything will work fine for you.

#7 killroy70


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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:29 AM

How long has it been since you transitioned from frog stand to advanced FS? It took me a while to get used to the advanced frog stand and it wasn't until I got used to contracting as many muscle groups as possible that I finally got it consistently. Prior to that, it was seemed to be more of a "balance" exercise, in that I'd set up and lean forward, trying to balance my body, and would eventually lose it and fall forward. Once I got used to really contracting my abs, lats, arms, etc.. did it become stable and consistent.
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#8 venobre


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Posted 27 April 2009 - 07:55 AM

ok i guess you're right i feel i have the same problem.

can i also know the way you trained dynamix exercices each day?set/rep?
i think i'll try your routine from what i've read it's the kind of routine that seems to give good results...

anyway thanks for you fast answer.

#9 killroy70


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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:18 PM

As I stated earlier in the thread, I train 4 days/week and my dynamic exercise setup looks like:

Day 1 - horizontal push/pull
Day 2 - dip/invert curl
Day 3 - HeSPU variations/chin/pullup variations
Day 4 - all sorts of different stuff. Multiplane pull, various push, sometimes just work muscle ups, etc...

My set/rep scheme has been GENERALLY 4-6 sets x 3-5 reps. What I've done is begin at whatever stage I'm ready for in a given FBE (fundamental bodyweight exercise) and work it until I can perform at least 5 sets of 5 perfect reps, then move up to a harder variation. I'll use my horizontal push as an example:

My progression looked like:

Bulgarian XR pushups -->Psuedo planche pushups (PPPups)-->PPPups, feet elevated, hands on blocks-->XR PPPups

In today's workout, I performed 5 sets of 5 reps XR PPPups. They went well, but were still pretty tough and I was a bit shaky on the last rep or 2 of sets 4 and 5. So, I'm going to stick with XR PPPups for at least another week or 2 until those 5 sets of 5 are perfectly solid.

One thing I've discovered that has helped me is to change my mindset away from how I used to approach my weight training workouts. Whether I was doing powerlifting, "general" strength training, etc.., my programs were geared towards adding weight in pre-planned increments over time, sometimes from workout to workout, sometimes weekly, etc... What I've found with my BtGB program is that I have to be much more patient. What I mean is that when looking at, say, barbell overhead press: if you told me that sticking with 150 lbs for 5 sets of 3 reps for 6 weeks was the way to go, I'd say you were crazy and that I could find a better periodized model to make faster gains. However, with my BtGB program, I've had to look at progression increments as something achieved over longer time-period-steps. For example: I was "stuck" (at least I thought I was stuck) in an advanced tuck back lever for weeks and weeks. Every time I'd try to advance to straddle back lever, I wasn't even close. So, I just keep performing 8-10 sets of advanced tuck back lever for 10-15 seconds/set for several more weeks and just put the straddle BL on the back burner. I didn't even attempt one until I could do 8 sets of 15 second holds and then a ninth set for a 40-60 second hold. After doing this for a couple weeks, all of a sudden, one day, I got into a straddle BL and held it strongly for 8 seconds or so.

The same thing happened moving to a full BL. Doing multiple sets of straddle BL was so brutally hard for me that a full BL seemed so far out of reach. Well, I just kept hammering away, 4 days/week, 8-10 sets/day of straddle BL, then one day, I pulled into an inverted hang, and lowered slowly to a full BL hold for 4 seconds. I was ecstatic.

Just fyi, I am the furthest thing from an authority on BtGB-type training. I'm just letting you know what's worked for me. Coach Sommer's book has been an invaluable resource as far as moving through the proper progressions and learning how to perform a hold properly. One more example with regard to my last point: I was having a hard time moving up in progressions with the FL variations. Some days were better than others, but I was very inconsistent. But re-reading the descriptions for each variation and seeing the points emphasized really helped, and in the next workout I concentrated extremely hard on pulling my shoulders back, and that was the difference. I was able to move pretty quickly through the advanced tuck with knees pointing straight up to where I'm at now, doing a half FL with one leg fully extended, the other tucked.

Hope this helps!
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#10 venobre


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Posted 27 April 2009 - 02:13 PM

thanks a lot for sharing your experience.
I think this post will help a lot, I'm curently working dynamic moves the same way and was wondering if it was the right way but your progrssion is a nice answer in itself.
when i read you saying you were stucked it's like i'm the one talking so your progression gives me some kind of confidence.
again thanks a lot, I'll add your way of training levers to my routine and hope I'll perform solid levers and feel ecstatic :wink:
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#11 heinrich


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Posted 07 May 2009 - 03:45 AM

thanks a lot for sharing your experience.

me, too! Thank you :D

I was having trouble with the WOD's, so Coach Sommer gave me a hint to this post.
Guess I trained the "WOD-way" too early.

I am the furthest thing from an authority on BtGB-type training. I'm just letting you know what's worked for me.

I know that there is no program that works for everyone. But your gains are truly amazing :shock:
So I will give it a try to build a rock solid base.

Thanks again for sharing and good luck with your training!

#12 killroy70


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Posted 08 May 2009 - 03:49 AM

Heinrich, I appreciate the comments. For me, just being consistent and NOT getting discouraged has allowed continuous improvement. I'm still not in the realm of being able to follow the daily WODs here, but I'll get there. I'm about to head out to work out this morning. Two new "additions" to my routine that I began this week are:

1) Holding a back lever for 8 seconds/set and pulling back to an inverted hang on every rep. My god, when I did this on my first workout this week (Monday), my abdominal muscles, specifically my obliques, started cramping up in the last few sets!

2) HeSPU's. As with pretty much every other exercise, I've been utilizing Coach Sommer's progressions for the HSPU. As I stated in my original post, just getting into a wall handstand was an accomplishment for me. Afterwords, I was desperate to work towards a full HSPU. So, I began my progressions, which looked like:
1) Feet propped up, upper torso vertical, pressing to floor
2) Feet propper up, upper torso vertical, hands elevated (on blocks), lowering until hands contacted shoulders
3) HeSPU negatives. After my first workout with these, my triceps were sore for days. And that's after only working 5 sets of 3 reps.
4)** Here I inserted my own little progression - HeSPU partials. I began with three 2x4's nailed together and put a towel on top. I then performed sets of 3 reps. After a couple of weeks on that, I switched to TWO 2x4's nailed together, and after another few weeks down to 1 board.

So, today will be my first day attempting to work full HeSPU's. I'm pretty revved up right now, time to work out...

#13 braindx


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Posted 08 May 2009 - 09:49 AM

There's nothing wrong with throwing together a routine and doing it maybe once or twice before your workouts (after your warmups). I think it would actually help a lot.

Also, I hope your handstand is a perfect straight up and down one. You'll get vastly more benefit from all your pressing exercise if it's a non-arched handstand. Also, I would start to work straight arm handstand presses as well... they will help a lot.

#14 crashnburn


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Posted 15 August 2009 - 12:11 AM

I guess this is the recommended KillRoy70 thread. Should we not sticky this one? Maybe merge it with 1-2 other threads around this

#15 GetFit01


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Posted 03 January 2010 - 01:39 PM

I am very confused about this. He says that he has advanced on static positions. Did he follow the 8-12 week cycle? If you are a beginner and can expect fast gains due to neuro efficiency, should you move to harder exercises if the initial ones you begin with become easy after a week or two?

I'm also wondering how to incorporate static work into my 5x5 routine. Coach Sommers talks about embedded, steady state, pttp, etc.

He also talks about integrated training as well as doing 10 sets of 6 seconds with 45 seconds rest, so which is it?

If I pair a static exercise with its pushing/pulling equivalent, and wait 45 seconds after performing the static before trying the pushing/pulling, followed by the recommended 3 minutes of rest between 5x5 sets, I'm waiting an awful long time between statics.

On the other hand if I do 10 sets of 6 seconds by itself, and pair that static with another one to save time, will this have the same benefit?

The writing is very unclear and I'm stuck in a paralysis mode. I'm spending all day trying to figure out how to make my program so the next few months aren't a waste of time, and here I sit not working out because of it.

Someone please help me!

#16 GetFit01


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Posted 03 January 2010 - 01:49 PM

God I'm so ready to quit. Perfectionism and working out can not work. I've been trying for years and it drives me nuts that I can't see the correct answer (how to get what I want). I think I'll stick to math lol. The ultimate truth in this world.

#17 Razz


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Posted 04 January 2010 - 02:34 AM

Getfit do not worry too much about designing your programs, for beginners and even intermediates you will improve also if you dont have the newest state of the art program. It might be a good idea for you to just follow the workout of the day's until you feel more ready to design your own routine.

#18 GetFit01


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Posted 04 January 2010 - 06:50 AM


#19 serotonin


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Posted 04 January 2010 - 08:43 AM

I also recommend you the WOD, i found it well designed and incorporates things you'll never thought about it. They are hard, really hard if done properly, try them a month, and answer here then. But you can scale them to your current level (if you don't have the book i recomend it, specially for the WOD). You just have to see which is the WOD of the day and you are done.
But i recomend you follow it as it is (4 times a week). If you have one goal in mind you can add it to the WOD because they are usually short.

#20 Joshua Naterman

Joshua Naterman

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Posted 04 January 2010 - 12:35 PM

God I'm so ready to quit. Perfectionism and working out can not work. I've been trying for years and it drives me nuts that I can't see the correct answer (how to get what I want). I think I'll stick to math lol. The ultimate truth in this world.

Read "DInosaur Training" by Brooks Kubic. You'll learn what success is about. I'll break it down for you, because even a perfectionist like you should be able to handle this. If you work hard every time you work out, stick to the basics, and stop worrying about whether you can do it or not you will get what you want. If you can't handle working out, you certainly are going to have a ton of trouble handling the rest of life. This is the easy stuff.

There is no right way, almost anything will work if you keep at it and put your all into every training session.

And, incidentally, math is not the ultimate truth in this world. That's a bunch of baby whine talk and we both know it. Once you break things down far enough, perception becomes the arbiter of reality. You cannot perceive an object's location as well as it's velocity. The closer you get to one, the less distinct the other becomes. Effort is rewarded, plain and simple. Focus your perception where you want to make gains, and keep it there. If you move from one target to another you will achieve nothing, here or anywhere else.
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