PE 1 mobility question

Wow. I thought this was going to take me like a year because I was aiming for that shoulder "pop" at near shoulder width and I'm nowhere close to that. I'm really glad I found this thread...

Edit: I just watched the video again and it looks like the athlete is dislocating somewhat, and getting that pop. The video is misleading....

Ronin168 said:

are the elbows supposed to be locked?

Jon Douglas said:

Yes.

I think the elbows are supposed to be locked for just about everything. When in doubt, lock them out!

I lock my elbows when I brush my teeth now, it took some extra shoulder mobility, but I've finally figured it out. 

thecolin said:

I think the elbows are supposed to be locked for just about everything. When in doubt, lock them out!

 

I lock my elbows when I brush my teeth now, it took some extra shoulder mobility, but I've finally figured it out. 

I lock my elbows when I do muscle ups now, because that's just how I roll. 

Bipocni said:

I lock my elbows when I do muscle ups now, because that's just how I roll. 

I fall when I do muscle-ups now.

So I've gathered that the dislocate-esque shoulder motion that the student shows in the HS/PE1>iM video is incorrect form? Edit: This confuses me, since I'm sure Coach Sommer recorded these videos, and would not have let something incorrect slip by. 

I'm trying Bipocni's quoted style from above, where you shrug high before pulling back fully, and I still cannot feel this in my traps or thoracic spine... I do however, consistently pinch some nerve between my neck and collarbone.

NoHiddenCosts said:

I fall when I do muscle-ups now.

 

So I've gathered that the dislocate-esque shoulder motion that the student shows in the HS/PE1>iM video is incorrect form? Edit: This confuses me, since I'm sure Coach Sommer recorded these videos, and would not have let something incorrect slip by. 

 

I'm trying Bipocni's quoted style from above, where you shrug high before pulling back fully, and I still cannot feel this in my traps or thoracic spine... I do however, consistently pinch some nerve between my neck and collarbone.

This thing has been confusing me also for a long time, on one hand you have people saying do what the athlete in the video does, the other they say don't dislocate, but he is dislocating its plain to see, I have watched this video hundreds of times and literally filmed myself 50-60times. I think the best thing would be to go to a seminar. I plan on it.

MattProulx said:

I think the best thing would be to go to a seminar.

I agree 100%. Sadly, that's several months of wait time and several hundred dollars that I just don't have.

Here's what CS said in an old thread:
 

 

- At shoulder width to only slightly wider there is very little dislocation that is going to occur, regardless of how hard you try.  Nor is rotation something you should pursue with this particular exercise.

 

- Focus on maximizing the shoulder flexion.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

 

And another thread:

- "Pulling apart" is fine as long as the rotation is minimized as Nic mentioned.  

 

- Note also that as the hands get closer to shoulder width, the degree of possible rotation will decrease substantially.

 

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

 

I have read these also and have since stopped trying to do like the video, I honestly don't thing that the purpose of  any PE1 is to even worry about perfection. I think some people get too caught up in trying to do everything perfect that they impede their own progress, there is a difference between stellar, and perfect. 

Thanks for the reference, Jennifer. Those were actually very helpful for me.

MattProulx said:

I have read these also and have since stopped trying to do like the video, I honestly don't thing that the purpose of  any PE1 is to even worry about perfection. I think some people get too caught up in trying to do everything perfect that they impede their own progress, there is a difference between stellar, and perfect. 

Yeah idk I'm finding this one really tricky. You could do it 10x and they might all look relatively the same but the effects and where you feel it could be totally different.

Right now I still don't know how to do it properly and I've been trying since Setptember. admittedly I should have posted a video but I was too lazy. Still trying to do it with the suggestions posted and maybe when I've gone through them all and still can't get it ill make a vid.

currently the way I've been trying I feel a contraction near my neck? does that sound familiar? trying not to crank it forward pretty sure its the traps but really high up.

Actually, my last question on the matter is a clarification of what is meant by "Flexion"

From Wikipedia:

 

 

Flexion describes bending movement that decrease the angle between two parts. Bending the elbow, or clenching a hand into a fist, are examples of flexion. When sitting down, the knees are flexed. Flexion of the hip or shoulder moves the limb forward (towards the anterior side of the body).

During the "Flexion" movement, we appear to be increasing the angle as we move our arms to the posterior side of the body. Is the decreasing angle supposed to be between our arms and our back?

DESTINY said:

Yeah idk I'm finding this one really tricky. You could do it 10x and they might all look relatively the same but the effects and where you feel it could be totally different.

 

Right now I still don't know how to do it properly and I've been trying since Setptember. admittedly I should have posted a video but I was too lazy. Still trying to do it with the suggestions posted and maybe when I've gone through them all and still can't get it ill make a vid.

 

currently the way I've been trying I feel a contraction near my neck? does that sound familiar? trying not to crank it forward pretty sure its the traps but really high up.

What size of weight are you using? I have attached a 15# weight to my 7lb bar and It has literally changed the exercise, I have to push up harder and i found I can pull back easier when I push up. Everyone is different though.

DESTINY said:

Yeah idk I'm finding this one really tricky. You could do it 10x and they might all look relatively the same but the effects and where you feel it could be totally different.

Think about what the next iM is.  When I try the PE2>iM I feel an incredible strain on something in my upper middle back (I'd hazard a guess as to rhomboids) but the point is that you should probably try to work the same muscles with PE1 as with PE2.

You know how.... when you bridge... you try to get your hands not just under your shoulders but past them?

That with a straight back.

I'm very, very very confused. So, for example, this is not the correct way to do the iM?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlS_AlfAKBI

I don't know if all this time what I've been trying is thinking about this iM as "First part of dislocate" to improve shoulder flexibility to dislocation itself. Now I'm confused and I think I'm going to read all over again.

Another: "Oh, no" moment. Definitely, I'll ask this in July at the seminar.

I'm confused too, I've been doing the same as you did (based on the same assumption), but recent reads on this subject got me wondering. So are PE1>iM and PE3>iM, after all, just easier versions of PE4-5-6?

This made it clearer for me.  

Jon Douglas said:

You know how.... when you bridge... you try to get your hands not just under your shoulders but past them?
That with a straight back.

Bipocni said:

Think about what the next iM is.  When I try the PE2>iM I feel an incredible strain on something in my upper middle back (I'd hazard a guess as to rhomboids) but the point is that you should probably try to work the same muscles with PE1 as with PE2.

I don't think this is the case. PE1 is shoulder flexion, PE2 is shoulder extension. Different movement, different muscle recruitment.

From Joshua's signature: http://www.exrx.net/Articulations/Shoulder.html

Duff said:

I don't think this is the case. PE1 is shoulder flexion, PE2 is shoulder extension. Different movement, different muscle recruitment.

In my experience there's something back there that I feel working with both movements.  Although since I applied Matthew Hanhams's advice, it's stopped....

Ok, just for the sake of informing to others. I never felt any "traps" involvement in this iM, just because all the time I was doing a semi-dislocation or the first part of it.

On monday I tried the cues on this thread about iM1 and really though of it in a easier variations of following exercises flexion related (PE5 for example, that once I tried it and give me that "traps" involvement), and... today is wednesday and my traps are really sore with DOMS. Like I've said before, I never felt any traps sore before, but now... just wow, now I understand the whole thing about how traps engage during a HS.

I say too that I think I hit mastery in my first tried, 2kg shoulder width. I really think I was doing this exercise far more complicated than really is (it was a semi-dislocate shoulder width with 2kg added...) and... well yeah, more complicated joint-related but not effective because my traps were doing nothing and now is completely different.

So, thanks Kimura for your post because thanks to it I found this thread and I did learn!

Thanks everybody. 

Next thing I'm going to do when I recover is record myself to form check mastery.

Thanks family!

I'm glad a post of mine could help somebody else! I have already gained so much from this forum.

It is really amazing how much this hits the traps when you do it correctly.

I think the scapula should be spread far apart from each other by turning the thumbs backwards. What I've researched it seems even in a handstand rotating the thumbs and fingers slightly out widens the back making the scapula dissapear and creates a 'wide lat' which is better than pinching the shoulders together. My question is should we be trying to rotate the thumbs backwards behind us while holding the bar during the PE1 IM stretch? Would this help open the shoulders more and train a correct shoulder position? Here's the link where i got some of this information

How often can one do this IM? Im so close but still don't quite get there. Can I do it daily in my other training? Is it safe?

RiQC said:

How often can one do this IM? Im so close but still don't quite get there. Can I do it daily in my other training? Is it safe?

I do it daily 1*10 with 10kg as warmup for bridges. No sweat once the mobility is there.