HS/PE2>iM Form Check

Hey Handstanders,

I'm on HS/PE2>iM for a while, so I wanted to double check my form before I spend too much time working to narrow it. 

Edit: as a side, I would also love advice on embedding youtube videos in a forum post...

Edit2: YES I figured it out. Totally over-complicated things

I feel like my form in the neck, chest, and back are pretty solid (correct me if I'm wrong), but my shoulders raise up a lot. Is that okay? 

I also feel a huge stretch in my biceps, which I think Jon Douglas & Biren P. have already confirmed. I also feel a stretch in my anterior deltoid (seems logical) and used to, but no longer, feel strong activation in my traps. It sounded like activation of the traps was a good thing, so I'm hoping that my muscles have just gotten used to the motion and/or grip-width.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Whoa, wide grip.  Took me by surprise there.

Yeah, looks okay.  Maybe work on depressing your shoulders (although I haven't heard an official statement regarding these, it makes sense) but otherwise you're a go to work on narrowing your grip.

I only really feel this one stretch my lower pecs.  For me it's a strength move more than anything.

Nice! I wish I had the same range of motion as you.

This may be completely off, but one thing I noticed I was doing (and you too) which seemed to be holding me back somewhat on this element was externally rotating the humerus as the bar is extended back and up.  If you look closely at the example pictures and video, his elbow joint crease (for want of a better description) is more or less facing the floor at peak extension.  When you are extending you roll your elbows out.  I think this ends up recruiting slightly different muscles at wider grips which I don't think carries over so well to narrower grips.

@Bipocni, it is a rather wide grip isn't it? I can go more narrow, but I wanted to do something easy for the video to focus on form. 

@Matthew Hanham, That is really interesting. I would really love to get another opinion on the elbow positioning because it completely changes the exercise for me. Using the same wide grip from above, if I try to keep my elbow pits down, I no longer have any stretch in my bicep, anterior deltoid, or chest, just a burn in my posterior deltoid and a seriously decreased ROM. Even at that super-wide grip, I can't get up to parallel! 

From what I read in previous posts from those my senior, the bicep stretch seemed to be a big part, so I'm very curious about this now. Could anyone else weigh in?

Hoping that Jennifer does not mind the reference, she posted a form check with properly narrow grip and elbows facing out and seemed to get the A-OK with everything except perhaps her neck:

https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/13909-my-very-first-form-check/?hl=extension#entry136171

In various other topics, there seems to be somewhat of a debate as to whether this iM exercise should be felt in the biceps & chest, or the triceps & posterior deltoid. Perhaps that is less important, and the important part is simply getting your arms up there?

NoHiddenCosts said:

 

In various other topics, there seems to be somewhat of a debate as to whether this iM exercise should be felt in the biceps & chest, or the triceps & posterior deltoid. Perhaps that is less important, and the important part is simply getting your arms up there?

I think in terms of where you feel the stretch is going to be very different from person to person, so I wouldn't worry about it. As you you say, it's just important to get your arms up, with the right form of course. Yours looks good to me. It's ok that your shoulders roll up, as long as they don't roll forward or your chest starts to collapse.

In my opinion, if you can keep the same body position with a narrow grip, you're good for mastery.

thecolin said:

I think in terms of where you feel the stretch is going to be very different from person to person

And it may change over time. I'm doing flexion pulses (PE3<iM) and at first I felt it in the shoulders, and then intensely in the chest, and now that the chest is loosened I feel it along the biceps in the arms. There's been a steady progression over where the movement's "weakest tightest link" is.

Matthew Hanham said:

This may be completely off, but one thing I noticed I was doing (and you too) which seemed to be holding me back somewhat on this element was externally rotating the humerus as the bar is extended back and up.  If you look closely at the example pictures and video, his elbow joint crease (for want of a better description) is more or less facing the floor at peak extension.  When you are extending you roll your elbows out.  I think this ends up recruiting slightly different muscles at wider grips which I don't think carries over so well to narrower grips.

Well, that made things a whole lot easier...

Bipocni said:

Well, that made things a whole lot easier...

this is insane - just tried it and this DOES make things a lot easier

Wait... just tried too and without warming up nothing I almost reach 90º parallel shoulder width with 1kg added. 

This have to be a joke or something. 

3kg, no warm up, shoulder width to 90 degrees with just a slight hunch in the shoulders... well holy crap. 

Am I the only one who finds a decreased ROM with this?

Adriano Flo said:

This have to be a joke or something. 

Hell of a first post, right?

I tried it too with shoulder width, almost feels like a whole different exercise. I couldn't get all the way up though, a few centimeters too low.

Now I feel a lot triceps involvement, almost like is my limiting factor in the full ROM. This is great. Matthew, thanks for this gem!

Sounds like a lot of breakthroughs going on ITT.... has anyone hit full mastery from that one detail?

Jon Douglas said:

Sounds like a lot of breakthroughs going on ITT.... has anyone hit full mastery from that one detail?

Yeah. Makes me wonder though, because I felt like I was getting close anyway, and this has really shifted the focus of which muscles it's affecting. 

Jon Douglas said:

Sounds like a lot of breakthroughs going on ITT.... has anyone hit full mastery from that one detail?

No mastery for me, but completely different sensations. Very sore far up in the triceps the day after.

Matthew Hanham said:

This may be completely off, but one thing I noticed I was doing (and you too) which seemed to be holding me back somewhat on this element was externally rotating the humerus as the bar is extended back and up.  If you look closely at the example pictures and video, his elbow joint crease (for want of a better description) is more or less facing the floor at peak extension.  When you are extending you roll your elbows out.  I think this ends up recruiting slightly different muscles at wider grips which I don't think carries over so well to narrower grips.

Is there some official statement whether the elbow pits should be facing down or out (humerus externally rotated)? Because these two definitely feel like two different exercises (at least on the beginning of PE2>iM journey ).

When I compare it with HS/PE4>iM focus point "Feel the chest open and the shoulders pull back." I feel chest opening with elbow pits turned out...

No, there is not. But since these eventually build up to a dislocate, I'm going to guess that it's fine if the elbows face out.

Since no higher-ups have stepped in to clarify, I think you should just do what works for you.

NoHiddenCosts said:

....since these eventually build up to a dislocate....

I made this same assumption with HS/PE1>iM.  Try not to think of these movements as abbreviated dislocates.  They are their own separate exercises.  If you go into them the same way you go into a dislocate you're not going to get the full benefit.

Bipocni said:

I made this same assumption with HS/PE1>iM.  Try not to think of these movements as abbreviated dislocates.  They are their own separate exercises.  If you go into them the same way you go into a dislocate you're not going to get the full benefit.

This. Don't rotate your elbows. Straight back.

Rotation is coming in the dislocate series.

Jon Douglas said:

This. Don't rotate your elbows. Straight back.

Rotation is coming in the dislocate series.

Well, I tried it just now without rotating elbows and I'm not able to extend to shoulder hight. Not without bending forward and tilting my head. Even with the widest grip I can take.

Interesting is I have enough flexible shoulders to get to the right position. When I grab rung of a stall bar behind my body and walk up with my hands until they are in my shoulder hight, I can stand almost completely straight. (Hope you got my point..)

That means enough flexibility, lack of strength. 

Bipocni said:

If you go into them the same way you go into a dislocate you're not going to get the full benefit.

Why?