Jan Reipert Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 hell guys, i´m 26years old, coming from a strength-training-based background (220kg DL, 170kg back-squat, 130kg bench press, 105kg push press, 100kg hang clean, 80kg OH-squat, 5 deep dips with 70kg added, all done@80kg bodyweight) and i would love to build some gymnastic skills with a full planche being one of my main all-time goals. i was always fascinated with gymnasts body control and strength but never dared to try a BWE-only routine. the time has come short-term goals:- a solid advanced tuck planche- a solid handstand mit-term goals:- a solid straddle planche- handstand press- front/back-lever long-term goals:- full planche- 3x BW DL- front/side-splits- one-arm chinups------------------------- the main-idea is to use integrated training as mentioned in building the gymnastic body, meaning after the static holds (done every workout) only a short rest-period of 30-60s will follow and afterwards ONE of the mentioned exercises will be done (alternating workout-to-workout to prevent boredom). warmup:wrist circles2 sets of wrist pushups (on knees)2 sets of finger pushups (on knees)4 sets of planche leans-------------------------back tuck lever static holds on a straight bar (6x6s)//- 6x3 explosive muscle-ups (no kip)- 6x6 strict perfect form pull ups tuck planche on paralletes (6x6s)//- 6x3 free headstand pushups- 6x6 trx-dips (do you think these would work well as a substitute for rings) front tuck lever static holds on a straight bar (6x6s)//- 6x3 natural GHR half- 6x6 pistols per leg l-sit static holds (1min holding-time)------------------------- i would like to do this routine 2-3 times/week (e.g. MO/WE/FR or Tu/TH) with one leg-only-day on saturday which will look like this: 5-8x3 hang power cleans/power cleans from blocks5x5 ramped deficit DL with chains5-8x3 ramped front-squats excessive stretching (i´m really stiff) for 30-40 min and skill-work for a solid handstand are done everyday. right now i can hold a solid handstand coming off a wall for ~15s but kickung up is still pretty hard for me because i can´t find the right kick. do you think this routine sounds reasonable? is it too much work? do you see any significant flaws? i´m planning to do a steady-state-progression with new weights/times/progression every 4 weeks if appropriate. thank you very much in advance for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 The lower body BW work is basically just assistance exercises compared to your lower body strength. Unless, of course, pistols are very trying for you because of a lack of mobility. Does sound like shoulders are a bit tight with only an 80kg OHS compared to 170 BS. TRX dips are good enough. Try to keep them turned out, palms forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deins Drengers Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Foundation and Handstand series is what you need to invest in ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Overall your routine looks OK. However, you're lacking two very important things: mobility, and a plan for progression. Without a plan for progression, you're basically just spinning your wheels. For example, right now you're planning to do 6 sets of 6 reps of pull-ups. If you're at the point where you can do that with good form, you should be considering moving on to a more difficult skill. Similarly for TRX dips; you should move to something a little harder. With regards to building the static holds, I would recommend reading through the prerequisites thread here and making sure you've gotten all of those skills perfected before attempting to progress further. (If you're short on time, the thread is summarized in Hernandez's post here). Though these are very simple and 'easy' exercises, working up to doing them at the prescribed volume will ensure that you have no weak links that could stall progress or lead to injury. If you keep working strength without doing mobility work, your advances in GST will slowly crawl to a halt in the best case, and you'll injure yourself in the worst case. There are a good number of mobility drills on the GB youtube channel and on the blog here. MobilityWOD is also a good resource for mobility work. MrPuppeh's recommendation that you take up the Foundation series is a good idea. Foundation provides detailed progressions and fantastic mobility exercises. If you have the money, it's an excellent investment, because it takes all the guess-work out of your programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Reipert Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 thank you very much for yout input. @blairbob: although my lower body is pretty strong for my size, GHR still are far out of reach for me. i guess my lower back is much stronger than my hamstrings and takes over most of the work in my deadlifts. this is why i want to strengthen my hamstrings. as far as pistols are concerned, you are definitely right: they are not really hard for me strengthwise but my mobility & stability is severely lacking. i think i would really benefit doing them for at least a few cycles. @joshua: finding the right progressions in most exercises can be a hard task, you´re absolutely right. i thought about it and reworked the plan to allow for a useful progression in every exercise. i am working on my mobility almost every day for 30-45min because i have some serious deficits in this area. but even though i´m only doing this for two weeks i´m already seeing some good progress. ----------------------------------------------------------------------back tuck lever static holds on a straight bar (6x6s)//- 6x3 explosive muscle-ups (no kip), progression measured by speed (goal: slow bar-muscle-up)- 6x5 ring pushups progressions (RTO pushups/RTO archer pushups/RTO PPPU) [with trx instead of rings, until i buy some rings, which i will do as soon as possible] tuck planche on paralletes (6x6s)//- 6x3 wall headstand pushups, progression achieved by added ROM every cycle (if appropriate)- 6x5 ring row progressions (archer ring rows/straddle one-arm rows/one arm-rows) [with trx instead of rings, until i buy some rings, which i will do as soon as possible] front tuck lever static holds on a straight bar (6x6s)//- 6x3 natural GHR half à progression achieved via volume and later on with unassisted natural GHR- 6x5 pistols per leg, progression achieved by added ROM l-sit static holds (1min holding-time)-------------------------------------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 GHR's are always gonna be tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Davies Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I'm gonna second Joshua Slocums advice about the prerequisites. If you're new here, listen to the guy. He knows what he's talking about. Even if you're pretty far advanced beyond that level (unlikely, they're harder than you think) make sure you include them as a warmup. It only takes a couple minutes, and will get you ready for your lever work. They're really, really important for teaching your body proper positioning and muscle activation, and will augment any other training you're doing. As far as your actual program goes, it's similar to the killroy70 program, which was based around BtGB and has been fairly effective with a lot of people on this board. (For reference, it can be found here: https://www.gymnasticbodies.com/forum/topic/1532-killroy-70-beginner-template/ ) Here's some good mobility work you might like: And some good general stretches you should be working on are wall slides, dislocates, bridges, pike stretch, pancake, german hang etc.... It's a long list. Finally, the Foundation series will get you most of your goals, along with a bunch of others to ensure you don't have any strength imbalances... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Reipert Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 i´ve gone through the prerequisites and they really are not a big deal for me. thank you once again for all your input, i will keep you updated one my progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 i´ve gone through the prerequisites and they really are not a big deal for me. thank you once again for all your input, i will keep you updated one my progress! Did you actually do them for the recommended sets/hold times? They are deceptively easy in that holding them for 10-20 seconds is not hard for most people, but 3x60s is another matter entirely. If you already did that, then good job! If not, it's worth taking the time to actually try all of them: you just might find a weak spot. And finding a weak spot means finding an opportunity for easy strength gains. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Reipert Posted July 3, 2013 Author Share Posted July 3, 2013 yes, i´ve actually done them for the recommended sets/times. most difficult thing was the l-sit but the rest was pretty doable. i guess my powerlifting background was quite helpful in things like PB supports or dead hangs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 yes, i´ve actually done them for the recommended sets/times. most difficult thing was the l-sit but the rest was pretty doable. i guess my powerlifting background was quite helpful in things like PB supports or dead hangs.It should be, I was very strong in the same ways when I started and saw similar progress/results at that time. Be very, very careful to take your time with straight arm planks, planche lean progressions, etc. This is where you will get wrecked if you let your muscular strength be your guide. Just some words of warning from a guy who caused considerable problems for himself (that's me, just in case it isn't clear) by letting strength be my guide. Even if it seems stupid, take 4 weeks before increasing lean and don't ramp up hold times more than 5s per week. In this, I think that the Foundation work will really help you out quite a lot. Out of curiosity, how is your pulling strength? By pulling, I mean rows, pull ups, etc. If they don't start with straight arms and a dead hang, I'm not very interested in the numbers. I noticed you didn't mention any of this in your accomplishments. Based on what you've said, I think that picking up the Foundation program would be important for you, but in a different way than most people. It will absolutely get you on the right track for gymnastic STRENGTH, just in terms of letting your body learn the body shapes and integrate your existing strength into them (as opposed to most people who need to build new strength in the shapes), but it will ALSO give you a focused set of progressions for developing the mobility you will need for cooler stuff down the line. As you get into F2 and beyond, you will start to see some strength challenges in some areas as well as mobility challenges, but it would be a mistake to skip F1. That would be like saying "Hey, let's just jump into the Texas Method without actually learning any technique in the lifts first!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Reipert Posted July 5, 2013 Author Share Posted July 5, 2013 my pulling strength is decent. i can perform every chin-ups/pull-ups from a paused dead hang til sternum height in strict form for easy 10+ reps. i did chin-ups with 35kg added for 5 clean reps and i do pendlay rows in the range of 90-100kg for 5 reps. strict (but explosive) muscle-ups are also already possible for me. i guess i will get F1 in the very near future. my only doubt is that i only have access to rings and a bar. i dont know if the program is feasible with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travis Widmann Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Rings and a bar will suffice at first. Eventually in F1 you'd need stall bars or an adequate substitution. Anything else is pretty straightforward or easy to figure out equipment-wise. You can always ask for a refund if you think you'd rather not deal with it. Reading back over your original post, Foundation will definitely take care of most of your goals save the deadlift, the handstand, and the full planche (it ends on the straddle, but you'll be much closer). For the handstand thankfully we have H1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 my pulling strength is decent. i can perform every chin-ups/pull-ups from a paused dead hang til sternum height in strict form for easy 10+ reps. i did chin-ups with 35kg added for 5 clean reps and i do pendlay rows in the range of 90-100kg for 5 reps. strict (but explosive) muscle-ups are also already possible for me. i guess i will get F1 in the very near future. my only doubt is that i only have access to rings and a bar. i dont know if the program is feasible with that.I agree, that is decent. That is plenty good on the equipment side for a long time. Eventually you may want to make your own stall bars. if you own a drill, you'll probably pay around 50 to 70 bucks for the materials needed. It will take about an hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafaedras Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Rings and a bar will suffice at first. Eventually in F1 you'd need stall bars or an adequate substitution. Anything else is pretty straightforward or easy to figure out equipment-wise. You can always ask for a refund if you think you'd rather not deal with it. Reading back over your original post, Foundation will definitely take care of most of your goals save the deadlift, the handstand, and the full planche (it ends on the straddle, but you'll be much closer). For the handstand thankfully we have H1.By the time you master straddle planche, wouldn't you be able to hold a full one anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connor Davies Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 By the time you master straddle planche, wouldn't you be able to hold a full one anyways? Oh sure, by the time you master straddle planche you could probably move into the position for a full planche or at the very least begin seriously training for it, but if my experiences with arch holds have taught me anything, it can be pretty freaking difficult getting your feet together. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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