Muscles Involved

[Jordi Van Gelder]

Hello

 

I'm a bit confused. When i search for muscles involved for planche for example, i read, of course shoulder, but also triceps and lower back, but what i feel it's more upper back and biceps! Also with front lever, it's supposed to be a pull move, but i feel the triceps there.

 

I know most of them but, to be sure, can anyone write the main muscles involved in the nexts moves?

 

Front lever

Back lever

Lsit

Planche

Human flag

Handstands

Iron cross

 

 

Thank you!

[Daniel Burnham]

All of the movements you mentioned are full body movements as are most all of gymnastic strength positions. Some may need more force from certain prime movers but you will feel them all over. It isn't that important which muscles are being used as the body doesn't learn by specific muscles but rather by neural patters. This is main difference between GST and other modalities of strength training and why it often produces better results strengthwise.

[Jordi Van Gelder]

Thank you for your time bro, but this is not exactly what i asked.

[Piotr Ochocki]

Thank you for your time bro, but this is not exactly what i asked.

But still Daniel's reply is a better answer than trying to list muscles involved in those particular positions.

It is about complexity and utlizing larger number of muscle groups and more complex movement patterns rather than isolating single muscles (you still could try to find prime movers if you want to, but from proper execution point of view this is not all what is required for these moves).

It could be that if you believe you feel "wrong" muscles - that your shape/style/execution is just wrong, or you are feeling weaker bit in the chain. Example, you wrote that during planche work you feel biceps and upper back - and you believe this is wrong, you will feel biceps and its tendon if you are working straight arm near to your capacity, you may feel your upper back/scapula area very well as it should be working hard during planche. Again, it rather looks these are your weaker links.

[Nic Branson]

Not to be an ass here but if you're concerned about directly which muscles are involved you're missing the point. That's not how the body works and it is not how we train.

 

You will feel things in your individual weak links, this is ofcourse assuming good form. The areas you lists for planche are quite common. Some people have reported chest/shoulder when doing L-sits. All these movement patterns are very complex and cannot be broke down the way you are asking in any appropriate manner.

[Joseph Fradelakis]

I am not listing all the muscles for each exercise but I think I know what you want. 

Here are some generalizations for you.

Front lever - armpit, elbow, abs

Back lever - shoulder, elbow, lower back

Lsit - abs, top of thigh

Planche - shoulder, elbow, biceps

Human flag - obliques, shoulder

Handstands - shoulder, traps

Iron cross - armpit, ,elbow, chest, shoulder

[Jordi Van Gelder]

Thank you, some of them are different that what i've thought.

[Kevin Conley]

How does weight lifting or kicking a soccer ball differ in the fact that they all build motor patterns....(and if you have a weak link in your shoulders...you will do less weight or not lift it, just as failing a rep in gymnastics strenth training)? He just wanted to know largely stressed muscles people. Lol. Yes, all body muscles are used, but there are ones clearly doing more work.

 

So weird when people on the board get uptight about an interest question. All these excuses to use their Exercise and Fitness degrees...

[Brian Li]

FL - lats, rear delts, triceps (long head), chest, traps, abs

BL - front delts, lats, chest, elbow flexors, lower back

L-sit - abs, hip flexors, traps

PL - front delts, pecs (clavicle head), elbow flexors, serratus anterior, lower back

HS - shoulders, traps (HS isn't a strength oriented skill)

SL - front delt, lats, chest, obliques, elbow flexors, triceps (long head)

IC - lats, chest, shoulders, elbow flexors, triceps (long head) 

[Jordi Van Gelder]

Thanks. I thought biceps were more involved! why then gymnasts have these huge biceps?

[Nic Branson]

Because they are not listed properly in the lists above. They do act strongly as stabilizers in several of the movements mentioned. You can't effectively break them down this way. Every list here if I look at the movements and muscular involvement is incorrect.

I state this simply because over thinking them can actually cause problems. Don't complicate it so much.

[Brian Li]

That could simply mean that your biceps are a weak link. I'm not sure if the biceps are stressed more than the shoulders in a planche though. I personally rarely feel it in the biceps or elbows and I do mines with the fingers back and I feel it most in the shoulders. I heard of many others saying they feel it most in the delts too.

 

The list I created was just to put in the prime movers and synergists and I didn't put in the stabilizers unless they were also a prime mover. Basically it was just a list that shows which muscles would be felt the most which I thought was what you wanted.

[alec_ar]

Not going to add to much here, but a couple of points:

Building off of what Nic and the others have said, it is indeed a complex compound move. More complicated than 'this move works that muscle'. To give you a little help though in visualizing where a lot of the forces are placed during a proper planche, Coach himself has stated a planche works the entire upper body, from biceps and lats to shoulders and traps, with some chest involvement.

Also, about your question of why gymnasts have such sick biceps development: all straight arm, low leverage gymnastics elements will stress the biceps (muscles and connective tissues) greatly.

Edit: even the manna and its progressions stresses the biceps quite a bit.

[Nic Branson]

My ipad is not doing quotes so sorry about not having it directly.

The problem with prime mover focus is that the stabilizers are often more important in high tension static holds. When they fail everything fails, if they are weak and prime mover strong you also increase injury risk immensely. Once they are conditioned then your risk is lowered. Thinking that work can be skipped because they are not prime movers is why I stress not thinking of movement that way. I do not want to see anyone at a greater risk for injury...

[Brian Li]

Yes, I hope people that read the lists know that there are more muscles that are working in those positions and that one shouldn't train up to them by working each muscle separately at a time (I wasn't expecting anyone to). I do believe that some isolation work may be useful for people with a known weak link along with doing specific work for the skill. 

 

Thanks for the info about the stabilizers being more important Nic! I thought they would only be as important as the prime movers.

[Jordi Van Gelder]

Well, i know maybe its not about one or two muscles, whole body its working, but we all know there is main muscles. 

I'm gonna write what i thought before posting this topic, feel free to criticize:

 

Front lever: Lats, triceps, back of shoulder ( don't know exactly the name ) chest and abs.

Back lever: Biceps, chest and lower back

Lsit: triceps, back of shoulder, abs and quads.

Planche: Shoulder, biceps, serratus, whole back.

Human flag: shoulder, biceps, lats and obliques.

Handstand: shoulder

Iron cross: biceps and chest.