SC Training Program

[kombatmaster7]

Hola everybody.

Over the past 2 days I put some effort in creating an integrated

Strength program using Coach Sommer's Steady State Cycle.

I have a couple of questions, and yes I did use the search function

and read all of the 13 posts that had the word Steady State Cycle in them,

about my program.

But first, here is what I came up with so far:

Static- planche and l-sit progressions

Core- V-up progressions

Pulling- Pull up variations

Pressing- Pushup Variations

Legs- Hamstring variations

I want to do these Monday, Wednesday, Friday (maybe Saturday not sure yet)

Here are my list of questions lol:

Will my 5 day a week swimming workout (1 hour 20 minutes) and 1 once a week Kung Fu (Saturday for 1 hr 30min) interfere with my strength building program?

With this said, is it possible to have 4 strength training days or will I have to stick to 3 and take out my core exercise?

Can I perform 2 static progressions each cycle (l sit and planche) or is that too much?

Can the hamstring variations be done without a partner? (no access to stall bars or mats)

How long should one rest between FSE sets? What about FBE sets? (I hear from 3-7 minutes when strength training)

Can the SSC support 1 core, pressing, pulling, leg, and 1-2 static exercises or is it meant for only 2 seperate exercises a cycle?

+everyone elses unanswered questions in other threads.

I'm a total noob so any help is appreciated.

Prayin for those WOD's (whatever that stands for lol)

[matthew.percussion]

Will my 5 day a week swimming workout (1 hour 20 minutes) and 1 once a week Kung Fu (Saturday for 1 hr 30min) interfere with my strength building program?

In my opinion this shouldn't be too much of a problem. It really depends on how much energy you have left after it and how badly your muscles are fatigued. As long as you feel fresh when you do your S&C it shouldn't be a problem.

Can the hamstring variations be done without a partner? (no access to stall bars or mats)

Anything that you can put your feet under that is sturdy/heavy enough will work. I have used a door before, just stick your toes under it(make sure it is closed). It is a little bit uncomfortable but it works.

How long should one rest between FSE sets? What about FBE sets? (I hear from 3-7 minutes when strength training)

I always keep my rest in between sets less than 90 seconds.

I'm a little confused about your other questions.

Do you understand that you should be doing one press, pull, core, and leg exercise each workout?

Don't forget to work squats along with hamstring variations. Both are vital.

Also, with your pulling and pressing exercises, don't just work push-ups and pull-ups. You should try to work all 3 planes.

For example, if you workout 3 days a week:

Day 1

HSPUs

Pull-Ups

Core(oblique, lower back, abs)

Legs(squats or hamstring)

Day 2

Push-Ups

Rows

Core(oblique, lower back, abs)

Legs(squats or hamstring)

Day 3

Dips

Curls

Core(oblique, lower back, abs)

Legs(squats or hamstring)

Note that each week all three planes of pushing/pressing are used.

Can I perform 2 static progressions each cycle (l sit and planche) or is that too much?

Do you mean that you are in a planche position, then without resting move directly into the L-Sit?

[Richard Duelley]

Hola everybody.

Can the hamstring variations be done without a partner? (no access to stall bars or mats)

quote]

I have never done these with a partner. I just put my feet under the couch in the living room or under the low beam when I am at the gym. Just be mindful that you might pick up whatever you put your feet on, for example I have to put 2 35lb dumbbells on the couch at home and it’s a big couch! 8)

[kombatmaster7]

Thanks for the reply mat.

For core, leg, pressing and pulling exercises (CLPPE's) I had the idea that I should pick one exercise from each category and perform 1 of the 4 exercises chosen on 1 of my 4 exercise days throughout the each 8-12 week cycle. The way your examples make it sound is that I can perform all 4 CLPPE's on one training day and then do it again the next training day.

On my last question I meant that can I do L- sit progressions and Planche progressions on seperate training days (or the same training days) for a 8-12 week cycle or is 2 static hold exercises to much and I would have to choose one?

I was also wondering how static hold are performed on training days with FBE's.

Coach says that static holds should precede FBE's, but did he mean do 1 set of FSE and then 1 set of FBE and repeat

or did he mean to say finish up all your static hold sets before proceeding onto you FBE's?

On a side note, I didn't know what the WOD's were until today, but I originally thought they were there to help clear up the many questions about Programming in the Gymnastic Bodies book.

What is the purpose of coach's newest WOD? Don't mean to insult coach, but I thought he would first address the programming problems in his WOD's.

[matthew.percussion]

WOD means Workout Of the Day.

From what I understand the WODs will get progressively harder over time.

Personally I do at least 3 Static holds per day. Sometimes as much as four.

In the WOD that coach posted today he has everyone doing two static holds per set of curls.

Back lever hold, curls, back lever hold

rest

Back lever hold, curls, back lever hold

rest

etc.

Using this design you can use a 6 second hold 10 times to equal the total 60s without too much confusion.

Today I will be doing coaches WOD, along with my Planche progressions and Dips.

Tuck Planche Hold, dips, tuck planche hold

rest

etc.

[Terry]

For hamstrings fix a chinning bar low down in a doorway, just high enough to slide your feet under.

Make sure the door frame is solid, if not don't send me the bill !!

[Blairbob]

it looks like the wods are covering just the first book's material. i wonder if in time, they will cover the advanced ring strength, hs, and dynamic power movements.

[braindx]

it looks like the wods are covering just the first book's material. i wonder if in time, they will cover the advanced ring strength, hs, and dynamic power movements.

I hope so... but by then hopefully I'll have maltese and planche!

[kombatmaster7]

Hey again. I'm trying to get my act together about the whole programming thing so I took an hour to reread (third time actually) the programming section in Coach's book and I wrote in my notebook the way I understand the section and the questions I have on the section.

I don't have much time because my grandpa is having dinner and doesn't like me to use his computer (only one in the house lol) so I'll write down the bare unedited notebook writings.

Forgive me if I am slow at understanding all this gymnastic stuff, I just want to get a good hold on it and set up a program that I can follow for this year.

So call me slow and stupid if you like but answer my questions afterwards.

My questions may answer each other or my understanding may be flawed so please correct me and point things out (questions are highlighted in color:

Understanding of Simple Static Hold programming:

Pick a static position- Can you pick more than one? pg 171's language doesnt go beyond explaining if you can pick more.

Do your maximum hold and divide the time by 2 and divide that # by 60; that is how many sets you are doing.

Rests between sets= 45-90 seconds

Pick 4 nonconsecutive days- add or subtract days if needed.

Does it have to be 4 days or can I choose 2 or 3 days of the week and still make gains?

Why 4 days?

By doing it only 2 days a week will the cycle have to increase in time because I am doing less work or will I just make less gains than that of a trainee doing 4 day a week workouts?

How would you split up the exercises on a 3 day schedule?

Book says- 8-12 week cycle and extend to 12 weeks if it is still perceived as "hard"

-Will unloading reps, sets, or time after the 8 or 10 week mark increase gains if the work is still perceived as "hard"?

For recovery time of course.

After the cycle, establish new times.

After you can perform the exercise for 15-20 seconds, move on to a harder variation that you can hold for at least 3-5 seconds.

Why 15 seconds? Why 60?

If I can hold a straddle planche for 3 seconds, would I divide that in half and divide the quotient into 60 and do that many sets?

Isn't that a lot of sets?

What are ways one can "experiment with the new" (pg 172) if after a cycle you cannot proceed onto a harder variation or are stuck on one variation? Don't you have to keep exercises, sets, reps, and times constant throughout the cycle?

Static Holds- Embedded

Main Difference from Simple static holds:

Get into the position with a progressively more challenging entry and exit- while continuing to hold the same hold time.

Why is this better? Is it aimed towards stronger gymnasts that can perform more variations?

Why 6-8 weeks and not 8-12 weeks before you move on to a different variation?

If it keeps getting harder and harder, how can one recover sufficiently?

Personel question for you guys- How do you guys count while doing a static hold (timer, self, 1 one thousand, ect.)?

Basic Strength Training

Low rep, low volume of 3x3 or 3x5.

Just curious but why not 3x4?

Will performing at a 10x3 or a pyramid structure give me hypertrophy or is there a better template to use for building muscle with bodyweight exercises?

When coach says, (pg 175 bottom) "...will be engaging in a whole body workout each of the training days" does he mean that if I am doing a M, T, TH, Fri work schedule I will be performing 1 core, 1 leg, 1 press, and 1 pull exercise on each training day for 8-12 weeks or all exercises on each day of the training week?

( for example on Monday I do all my 1 core, 1 press, and 1 pull exercise and repeat on tuesday, thursday and friday for the rest of the cycle or do one core exercise mon and 1 leg on tuesday and 1 press thursday etc)

Isn't that a lot of stress and fatigue especially if you are integrating your training with static holds?

When coach says, " Each day of the training week focus on a different press, pull, core, and leg exercise" is he 1) assuming that you are working on a 4 day a week schedule and 2) contradicting himself by saying that each day will be a full body workout?

Why does coach's example (top of page 176) of a weeks rotation only consist of different pulling exercises only and not the other three categories of exercises?

From the language used earlier in the book I got the impression that I had to choose I exercise from the 4 categories (press, pull, core , leg) and stick with it doing the same reps sets and exercise (following the SSC of course) until I am strong enough to move onto a harder variation of the exercise, but it seems that I get the feeling that I can choose more than 1 exercise from each category. Is this true?

The second paragraph on the top of pg 176 talks about pairing exercises. Does that mean that if I chose 2 training days (T, Fri) I would do 1 core and one leg exercise tuesday and 1 press 1 pull exercise on friday or all exercises done in one training day and instead of resting after (lets say) a press exercise I do the pull exercise?

On the Set Structured Variations (pg 176-177), to be congruent with the Steady State Cycle, how can one perform Ladders, GB Pyramids, and blended sets if the SSC says that one should stick with the same exercise and the same # of sets and reps throughout the cycle?

Is the traditional and ladder methods aimed more towards beginners and the GB pyramids and blended sets aimed towards the intermidient and advanced atheletes?

I was just curious because the Pyramids and blended sets require one to be able to do more advanced exercises in order to progress down or up in difficulty of exercise.

Integrated Training

Coach says (pg 178) that in integrated training that press/pull exercises are optimal when paired with static holds.

Does this make doing core/leg exercises optional? Would they mess up your program if you added them?

From what I understand, the basic strength workout is paired with the simple static hold workout or embedded static work. 30-60 seconds break between SH work and BS work.

Are all one's sets of static strength work performed before starting FBE(s) or are the static hold sets alternate with FBE(s) sets?

Ex. Tuck planche (do all 10 sets of 6 sec) then doe FBE(s) sets.

OR

Tuck planche 1 set, FBE one set, tuck planche 1 set, FBE 1 set, ect?

Does the example on the bottom of pg 178 assume that each day the trainee performs 4 static holds and 4 FBE's each day for 4 days a week or 1 static hold and 1 FBE each day for the 4 assumed training days of the week?

SCC pg 180-181

Only question is one I probably asked b4.

Coach says work cannot increase in the cycle, but can you decrease the work for more recovery?

Also, how many exercises (FSE and/or FBE) can one pack in each SSC?

Thanks a ton for even reading this long post.

Once again, sorry if I offended anyone with this extremely long post, but I want to design my program already with no doubts or questions.

Hope the coloring helps.

Grandpa is comming in 5 so I gotta go.

pce

[matthew.percussion]

You ask a lot of questions. Hopefully I don't fall asleep before I answer them all...

Does it have to be 4 days or can I choose 2 or 3 days of the week and still make gains?

Why 4 days?

By doing it only 2 days a week will the cycle have to increase in time because I am doing less work or will I just make less gains than that of a trainee doing 4 day a week workouts?

How would you split up the exercises on a 3 day schedule?

I would say that who days is too little if you are training to compete as a gymnast but, it is good enough to help you gain strength. Three days is good if you want to just get healthy and I believe that this would also be enough to make some pretty good gains(I know I did when I was going Mo, Wed, Fri). Four days just works. I don't know the science behind it, but it seems to be the more effective more often.

In a three day schedule I would say push/pull a different plane each day. Each day also pick abs, oblique, and back. Finally put in a hamstring/squat variation in every other work day(it will alternate from 2 squat variations and 1 hamstring to 1 hamstring and 2 squat variations from week to week).

-Will unloading reps, sets, or time after the 8 or 10 week mark increase gains if the work is still perceived as "hard"?

This question confuses me, but I think I can answer it. With the plan Coach Sommer explains you will be 'unloading' just by doing the exercises over time. It will be hard in the beginning but as strength increases it becomes easier. Thus doing the same thing as unloading would do for you. (Someone needs to confirm this)

After you can perform the exercise for 15-20 seconds, move on to a harder variation that you can hold for at least 3-5 seconds.

Why 15 seconds? Why 60?

Because it works.

If I can hold a straddle planche for 3 seconds, would I divide that in half and divide the quotient into 60 and do that many sets?

Isn't that a lot of sets?

Yes and yes. I think that it makes more sense to be able to hold it for at least 8 seconds. Perhaps round up a number after you get you 'half max.'

Why is this better? Is it aimed towards stronger gymnasts that can perform more variations?

Why 6-8 weeks and not 8-12 weeks before you move on to a different variation?

If it keeps getting harder and harder, how can one recover sufficiently?

I believe that it is better because it works a wider range of motion. The actual static hold will not be anymore difficult as it will remain the same length. The entry and exit are only brief exercises and are only performed 1 rep for each set.

How do you guys count while doing a static hold (timer, self, 1 one thousand, ect.)?

I count in my head. one-one thousand...

I might come back and finish answering all of the questions I can, but it's getting late.

Hope this clears up some of your questions.

-Matthew

[kombatmaster7]

Thanks a ton, I still got more questions tho lol.

For my question, -Will unloading reps, sets, or time after the 8 or 10 week mark increase gains if the work is still perceived as "hard"?

I meant that, for example, Bill has a max hold of 12 seconds on his flat tuck planche and does 10 sets of 6 seconds for 4 days a week.

Now on the 8 week mark Bill still perceives the exercise as "hard" so he continues for another 2 weeks. At the 10 week mark Bill still perceives the exercise as "hard" so he decides to cut his sets in half in fear of overreaching too much (this is what I meant by unloading) for the next two weeks, making the exercise easier and hoping that it will allow enough recovery for the body to make strength gains.

If my example doesnt make any sense, ill try to find another one.

[matthew.percussion]

I'm not really sure on this one. But, by giving yourself the extra time to recover it would make sense that when you try for the longer time again it should be easier.

It seems unrealistic that this sort of thing would happen though. In my opinion you should address this issue when it arises, I don't expect that it will though.

[kombatmaster7]

Probably the most important question I need answered is:

In the SSC cycle, does one pick one pull, press, leg, core (totaling to 4 exercises) exercise and stick with it for each cycle or can you pick many exercises within each category and somehow put it in your cycle?

Please answer my other questions when you have time tho.

thanks much

-kombat

[matthew.percussion]

In the SSC cycle, does one pick one pull, press, leg, core (totaling to 4 exercises) exercise and stick with it for each cycle or can you pick many exercises within each category and somehow put it in your cycle?

I would suggest working all planes of motion each cycle. For example:

Monday

push-ups, rows

abdominal exercise(v-ups or HLLs)

Squats

Tuesday

Pull-Ups, HSPUs

RLLs for your back

Hamstring variation

Thursday

Dips, curls

oblique exercises(windshield wipers)

Squats

Friday

Combined Press/Pull

Straight body exercise(tick tocks/ 360 pulls)

Hamstring variation

Does this help?

[kombatmaster7]

Actually..I think I see the light now.

I was so stuck on the idea that I had to pick one exercise from each of the 4 categories and stick with it

That I forgot that I had to work each of the planes of movement.

I didn't realize that I could use ALL the (for example) pressing exercises that I could do and switch them off way training day. I also wasn't too clear on whether or not I perform 1 or 4 exercises each training day.

Thanks, that really, REALLY helps.

I was just wondering on my 4 day schedule, how many different static hold progressions can I pack into in each cycle? (keep in mind that the static holds will be integrated with FBE's)

For ex, could I pack in front lever, plance, and l sit progressions in a SSC or r 3 static holds too much and I should stick to training 2?

I will start to test my body to see what exercises I can do and can't and for the ones I can do, how long or how many reps can I do them for.

Thanks a ton

About sets and reps, everything in the SSC is constant correct?

If so, why does coach introduce ladders, gb pyramids, and blended sets that fluctuate in sets, reps, and exercises?

[matthew.percussion]

In the book he explains that the pyramids and 10x3s are for those athletes that require a little extra hypertrophy to see gains.

I do 3 statics a day(my personal preference) during the week and on Saturdays I do all of them but without any other S&C.

That's just my personal preference, not sure if this is the best way though.

[Chris H Laing]

In the WOD that coach posted today he has everyone doing two static holds per set of curls.

Back lever hold, curls, back lever hold

rest

Back lever hold, curls, back lever hold

rest

etc.

Is that really how its supposed to be done? I thought it was BL hold, BL hold, curls, rest, repeat... Yours makes more sense though. (coach, care to chime in?)

[Coach Sommer]

As posted, perform one to two reps of the embedded BL and then proceed onto the curl variation; although Matthews is certainly an interesting variation and is worth experimenting with.

As a side note, this particular part of this discussion would be better placed in the appropriate WOD being discussed.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Theodore Bushnell]

Just a comment about static holds and counting. I find a metronome (many cheap ones available for ~$10) set at 60 BPM is a nice way to help count during a hold. Once I am appropriately in good position, I just count the beats until I reach my goal. No more "1 bannana, 2 bannana..."

Just a thought.

Ted.

[Mika Reini]

Hi!

I have a question: can i progress if i only have 2 days in a week to workout? 2 different fullbody workouts, bodyweight strength training exercises and weigth lifting exercises.

I just want to lift things too.. just bodyweigth is boring and just weigths are boring I like pull-ups/chin-ups but also i like deadlift.. both is better. Just learning deadlift form and pull-up form and learning form in anykind of exercise :roll:

So to my question 2 days a week (like mondays and fridays or alike) training is it going to work or is it waste of time. I just have to train as little as 1 or 2 times a week, 2 times is going to be maximal number of workouts in a week. So some weeks 1 workout in a week is what i have time/money to (I have to go to my parents house in a farm, where my "homegym" (power rack, rings etc.) is, with a bus. so i spend many hours to the "workout", because it is 1-2hours travelling in one direction)..

[matthew.percussion]

You can make progress with one day a week. But it will be slow. Just make sure you don't miss a day.

Maybe after a while you will find more time to workout and bump it up to three days a week? =D

[Blairbob]

My reccomendation is to bring as much portable equipment home from your home to where you now live ( like you're rings ). At home I can do quite a bit of gymnastics strength merely with 2 bar stools and the hole going to the attic to do pullups and levers on.

Go home 1x a week, to get a good home cooked meal from Ma, say hi to Pa and get in some heavy lifting. Hit both the Deads and the BS that day and maybe some overhead or bench press besides any throwing weight around and catching it ( Oly ).

Get one of those el cheapo BB sets, 100lbs for 100 bucks at the local sports store and you can do light lifting where you live now 1-2x a week. Hit the park and throw your rings to do the BW stuff or bring along a set of parallettes or do HS against trees.

[Mika Reini]

So.. the gains will be slow with 1 workout in a week, but it can be done.

I can put my rings in my home where i live, and strength train with those. But the weigths will be in my parents house. and it is small room where i live now, so free weigths are imbossible to work with here. Maybe i can make room for pull-up bar to the ceiling so i can do more gymnastic things.. And other days i could go to the local gym and hit the weigths. To the gym i would go with bus and it is half an hour one direction.

But if i want to do both (free weigths and bodyweigth) in a workout, i just have to go to my parents house. :roll:

So which is better?

1. to go to my parents house 1-2 times a week to workout or

2. to go some days to local gym and do full body workout, and some days do bodyweigth only full body workout (including 1-legged sguat and GHR (i have build an equipment for those) with weigth vest, in my home (small room))? Could that be better, like 2 times a week to gym and 2 times do the gymnastics? it would be 4 full body workout. :?:

[Joshua Naterman]

So.. the gains will be slow with 1 workout in a week, but it can be done.

I can put my rings in my home where i live, and strength train with those. But the weigths will be in my parents house. and it is small room where i live now, so free weigths are imbossible to work with here. Maybe i can make room for pull-up bar to the ceiling so i can do more gymnastic things.. And other days i could go to the local gym and hit the weigths. To the gym i would go with bus and it is half an hour one direction.

But if i want to do both (free weigths and bodyweigth) in a workout, i just have to go to my parents house. :roll:

So which is better?

1. to go to my parents house 1-2 times a week to workout or

2. to go some days to local gym and do full body workout, and some days do bodyweigth only full body workout (including 1-legged sguat and GHR (i have build an equipment for those) with weigth vest, in my home (small room))? Could that be better, like 2 times a week to gym and 2 times do the gymnastics? it would be 4 full body workout. :?:

Either way will be fine man. I've been going to the gym once a week just to string the rings up on the cable machine and have fun on them(that's what I call my workout!), and I've been consistently getting stronger. I've moved through all of the progressions to full front and back levers in 4 months, and adv. tuck planche. My manna is terrible, but I can almost support my big ass on the ground now! Hehehe Anyhow, my point is that the once to twice a week training is very effective if you are approaching it with a high intensity mindset. High intensity, low volume, low frequency. Work hard, work quick, get lots of food and rest. As time goes on you will develop the work capacity to work multiple times a week with slightly less than maximal intensity, and you won't overtrain. But especially now in the beginning, 1-2 times a week is good. Especially if you are adding in weights, which I think is a smart thing to do.

You are going to have to find out what your work capacity is. 1 hard weight day and 1 hard gymnastics day is going to push you to your limits at first. That's the strength stuff. You should still do some statics as you feel like it, a few times a week, but you don't need equipment for that.

[Mika Reini]

Thanks for the reply. What do you mean by that, you do not need equipment fot statics? What movement(s) do not need equipment?