Workouts Without Flat-Palms?

[John McCloud]

Hello there!

After doing some workouts on rings with a gymnast/rock climber for the past few weeks, I decided that I'd get a pair of my own. Those are great, but there's a lot of static stuff I need to build up apparently (having looked at a few things here on the forums).

Now, I have a cyst on my wrist which hasn't bothered me in a long time, but it's beginning to again. I cannot do flat, open-palm pushups at all as the pain is pretty unbearable. This has happened before in the past, and I switched to closed-fists. I see there is a great deal of talk on the forums regarding static holds and handstands that generally call for using your palms, but is it perfectly fine to use fists?

My question is: Could I substitute open-palm positions with closed fists for any and all positions that do not involve the rings?

Cheers,

-John

[Daniel Burnham]

You really cant do planche progressions on the fists. In the l-sit progressions you could do fingertip but that is very difficult. The palms allow you to balance and most of the exercises require some balancing.

You could do planks on your fist for the time being. Does it hurt to do rings? Do you have parallettes? You can do the FSPs on these instead of floor it that does not hurt.

[AlexX]

Anything done on palms can be done on parallel bars, the same can not be said for just using your fists. Either make some of your own (there are a few guides around) or just buy pushup bars.

I had a similar problem in my teens, I tore some ligaments in my wrist and when it healed cyst like bumps developed on them. I used bars for everything, after a year I just opted for surgery.

[John McCloud]

@Daniel

Thanks for the info about the planche. It's a shame that I cannot use my palms 100% anymore.

It doesn't hurt to do things on the rings (at least, it didn't, but I can feel the tightness and pain from the cyst growing again in my wrist), and I don't have parallettes. As AlexX suggested, I will probably invest in a par of pushup bars though, as they look to be really helpful for me.

@AlexX

Good good. Parallel bars don't hurt (for now).

My cyst seems to be from caffeine consumption. It's the damndest thing, really, but before surgey, I noticed that coffee and caffeinated teas would really aggravate and sometimes cause the cyst to grow (but not always). I had surgery on the wrist before, and it hasn't hurt at all for 3.5 years. The other night, I was working on a project for school and needed to stay up a little late (24+ hours) to get things done with my team. I drank a 5-hour energy thinking, "It won't do anything to my wrist. The doctor even said they have no idea what causes cysts." Hindsight and all that.

Thanks for the suggestions! Hopefully my workouts and handstands (er, fiststands?) will get a little better even if I can't quite get all the balance I need from my palms. Parallel bars of some sort and the rings should be sufficient.

[Cole Dano]

Push Up Bars are basically low parallets, and as long as they are the kind that don't spin should work well for your needs.

[Andrew Long]

I have to say I have the same problem with a cyst in my right wrist and I do all my floor training on my knuckles without any problems. I must admit that handstand progress has been a lot slower due to this but I can now finally get consistently 10 second free standing HS. As for planche im not sure about straddle or full lay but tuck planche is no problem for the knuckles in my case either. I will probably get parallets one day but id prefer to be able to do these floor exercises without equipment so when i travel ( which is a lot) I dont have to bring anything with me because i was dedicated to learn these things the hard way on my knuckles..

Alternatively you could start building your finger strength and eventualy work up to doing these exercises on your fingertips anyway hope this helped =D

[Daniel Burnham]

I have to say I have the same problem with a cyst in my right wrist and I do all my floor training on my knuckles without any problems. I must admit that handstand progress has been a lot slower due to this but I can now finally get consistently 10 second free standing HS. As for planche im not sure about straddle or full lay but tuck planche is no problem for the knuckles in my case either. I will probably get parallets one day but id prefer to be able to do these floor exercises without equipment so when i travel ( which is a lot) I dont have to bring anything with me because i was dedicated to learn these things the hard way on my knuckles..

Alternatively you could start building your finger strength and eventualy work up to doing these exercises on your fingertips anyway hope this helped =D

If you do them on knuckles you will not learn correct balance and will not be able to go past the tuck planche. You cant really lean on knuckles because you will have no leverage. Also you wont develop the wrist mobility as you increase the planche lean. This will leave you with a disadvantage when you are strong enough to do adv. tuck. If you want proof try to do good planche leans on knuckles.

[Rik de Kort]

If you do them on knuckles you will not learn correct balance and will not be able to go past the tuck planche. You cant really lean on knuckles because you will have no leverage. Also you wont develop the wrist mobility as you increase the planche lean. This will leave you with a disadvantage when you are strong enough to do adv. tuck. If you want proof try to do good planche leans on knuckles.

Please explain to me how anyone can have a hands backwards planche.

[Daniel Burnham]

Please explain to me how anyone can have a hands backwards planche.

Rik you have noticed I was speaking in relation to the hands forward position. Firstly I think this position is preferable for those just starting gymnastics and don't have much straight arm strength. This could be remedied by proper prep though and you could progress through planche with hands back.

As for your question, the hands back position still uses the hand to balance. There is less ability to push yourself "back" but you still use the base of your hand and your palm to perform some balancing.

I know you didn't ask about ring planche but I thought I'd give my thoughts on it anyway. The correct ring planche has the rto position and is similar in strain to the hands turned back position on the floor. However the balancing is quite a bit different because you basically move the rings to create that balance. Of course someone who is very good knows where their point is and sticks the correct lean as soon as he moves into the position.

The other planche position on p-bars is at first glance very similar to the knuckles idea. However you will loose the pulling action when you move the wrist. In the p-bar grip you pull on the opposite side while pushing on the other side of the hand.

[Rik de Kort]

As for your question, the hands back position still uses the hand to balance. There is less ability to push yourself "back" but you still use the base of your hand and your palm to perform some balancing.

I was being facetious as you said you can't hold a planche on your knuckles because you don't have the leverage, which is absolute bollocks as the leverage conditions are fairly similar to the hands-backwards position.

Not saying it's a good idea or it'll be easy, but it's definitely not impossible IMO.

[Andrew Long]

i do planche leans with my knuckles at my waist quite easily . it was a bit uncomfortable at first but I have been doing things on my knuckles so long they adapted quickly. Also I only train with palms facing forwards on planche positions.

I am 100% positive i could achieve a full planche on my knuckles but like I said I have had to do everything on my knuckles for a long time so it is as natural to me as someone using their palms. so I understand if it seems impossible to you. Perhaps one day I will train it on my fingertips sometime down the line but I don't think i will work too much on that until I have a straddle on knuckles. (2 years later...... =P)

[Daniel Burnham]

i do planche leans with my knuckles at my waist quite easily . it was a bit uncomfortable at first but I have been doing things on my knuckles so long they adapted quickly. Also I only train with palms facing forwards on planche positions.

I am 100% positive i could achieve a full planche on my knuckles but like I said I have had to do everything on my knuckles for a long time so it is as natural to me as someone using their palms. so I understand if it seems impossible to you. Perhaps one day I will train it on my fingertips sometime down the line but I don't think i will work too much on that until I have a straddle on knuckles. (2 years later...... =P)

Do you mind taking a video of the position?

[John McCloud]

@ausswe

That is most encouraging to hear! Good work on your progress! I hope to as much as I can while keeping to knuckles, and I'm thrilled to see that someone else had the same idea as I did

If you'd be so kind, I too would be interested in seeing a video of the "knuckle-planche."

[Andrew Long]

if you dont mind waiting a couple of weeks for the video id be glad to try and get one taken and post it up for ya =) since my ankle has been feeling better I have been slacking on my gymnastics training as I have the ability to rock climb again!! yay. Anyway due to the recent rock climbing I have pushed myself to far as I always do and now need a week or 2 for my elbows and forearms to recover but as soon as they feel solid again I'll get a friend to film me on his phone and post it for ya. good luck with the knuckle training mate =) and if all else fails start practicing with ya fingertips, it looks cooler anyway .