Inverted Butterfly Cross Progressions?

Hmmm, I noticed that myself. As the TG reaches the top of the rack the gliding mechanisms sort of gives out. I'll have to check if its a lack of strength, or simply the machine popping out on me. Thanks.

One thing I'm finding with the inverted cross is that arching the back (i.e. thrusting my chest out) allows me to engage my chest more; since the pectoral muscles are larger than the lateral deltoids, this lets me exert more force. You might find it fruitful to experiment with performing the inverted butterfly with an open chest to see if you can recruit your pecs more. 

jfslocum said:

One thing I'm finding with the inverted cross is that arching the back (i.e. thrusting my chest out) allows me to engage my chest more; since the pectoral muscles are larger than the lateral deltoids, this lets me exert more force. You might find it fruitful to experiment with performing the inverted butterfly with an open chest to see if you can recruit your pecs more. 

Aren't you supposed to maintain a hollow body position when doing the inverted cross? I'm not sure though.

Yaad Mohammad said:

Aren't you supposed to maintain a hollow body position when doing the inverted cross? I'm not sure though.

Mr. Van-Gelder would seem to disagree: 

Thanks for the tip @jfslocum. I'll try it because I agree, the pec involvement will likely make it easier. I would, however, like to keep the movement as strict as possible with as straight a body as I can.

@yaad, the only inverted crosses I've seen without much arch have been executed by the Chinese Olympic team, and Dong Zhen (possibly my favorite gymnast). Most others seem to have a relatively significant arch, although perhaps you're right, there may be deductions for no hollow body.

This is Dong Zhen, and he still arches but I think less than most other pros...

Here's Chen, who is also insane at everything. His, Yan Mingyong's, and Zhen's I think are the best I've seen.

Don't forget about Yang Wei's! It's also about as good.

One thing I tried yesterday was holding my chest hollow and then arching my lower back to maintain balance. That also seemed to work reasonably well, but it's hard to say if it was categorically better. 

@B1214N, also one of my top favorite gymnasts @jfslocum, do you mean in an inverted cross hold? If so, I'll have to screw around with that.

Here's my latest endeavor, without any hollow chest, but next time I train I'll try your style

alec_ar said:

@jfslocum, do you mean in an inverted cross hold? If so, I'll have to screw around with that.

 

Yeah, in the hold. 

So I tried it with more or less hollow chest and an arched lower back. It was awkward and felt much more difficult. Hmm..

I've been wondering always why you train skills that, objectively, there are far away from your skill level right know. It is as if I'll try training full planche on rings with my precious 82kg without even perform it on floor, or paralletes; No matter how you look at it, it's nonsense. Besides all consequences that come: impromer form, injuries, desmotivation, etc etc. 

Everybody want achieve those skills, but everything it's little by little, small steps follow small steps and you'll reach the sky. But you have to start with basics, and your basics, by watching your videos, it's not clear at all. 

It's not my intention offending you as person, just it's my thinking about your traning. 

Regreets.

Yeah I've gotten that a lot along my strength journey. I respect your opinion but am going to continue to train the way I want to. Thanks for your concern.

Ok so I figured I'd give the other half of the Inverted Butterfly some love. Here's some footage from tonight, my first night working on the Japanese Handstand. Obviously it'll be awhile before I get a press of the move, and I think I'll focus mainly on wall assisted sets for time.

Any advice from anyone training this or who has achieved one would be sick. Also, is the chest supposed to be hollow and the shoulders protracted, neutral...

Thanks guys

Very nice Alex_ar

When I do a japanese handstand, I focus on elevating my shoulders, with some protraction too. Ideally the chest should be slightly hollow, just like a normal handstand. 

To be honest though, I never trained for one. I just tried the press one day and found I could do it. So unfortunately I can't really recommend any progressions   . I can say that do a lot of planches and handstand pushups will help, though.

Alex, if you search through the forum there is a post from Coach answering this exact question. I think it was elevated and slightly protracted, but I'm not sure.

in my opinion have a solid handstand is important and also handstand with hands turned out. here you can't balance with the fingerts but only with your pecs and palms, and of course elevation of shoulders in important, when you lose it, is better exit from the position. assisted jap hs with partner is the more frequent exercises used in my gym

http://youtu.be/RpA76jcOTm8

alex87 said:

and also handstand with hands turned out. here you can't balance with the fingerts but only with your pecs and palms, 

That is not entirely true. Spreading your fingers affords you a bit more control, because you can press into your thumb or pinky. 

Also it should be noted that the athlete in the video has a slight flaw in his form: his shoulder angle is close, and he his arching to compensate. Just as in a normal handstand, your goal is to have open shoulders, a slightly hollow chest, and a straight body. 

the guy in the video it's me, i'm not really train it frequently but as i do in handstand when you reach an high level of bones positioning you really don't need to balance with your fingers but only using your palm. this is the reason of why i use to do hs with extra rotation to increase balance performance in jap handstand. i can balance without spend to much strength in my fingers to control my body...there are no reason to use different method...and i can focuse on other things, as you say maintain a better hollow position...in the beginning i used to squeeze my fingers on the floor..but now i don't need it!

But alec_ar is in the beginning, so he may find it a useful way to help his balance. 

Thank you yeah. Maybe I'll try pike press with a partner. As well as leaning against a wall. I think a lot of my issues will be balance related.

jfslocum said:

But alec_ar is in the beginning, so he may find it a useful way to help his balance. 

of course...sorry

alex87 said:

of course...sorry

No worries 

Hari_Seldon said:

Also it should be noted that the athlete in the video has a slight flaw in his form: his shoulder angle is close, and he his arching to compensate. Just as in a normal handstand, your goal is to have open shoulders, a slightly hollow chest, and a straight body. 

How come all Japanese Handstands I've seen are arched to some extent much like all the inverted crosses I've seen?