alec_ar Posted January 2, 2013 Author Share Posted January 2, 2013 Hmmm, I noticed that myself. As the TG reaches the top of the rack the gliding mechanisms sort of gives out. I'll have to check if its a lack of strength, or simply the machine popping out on me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 I know, my basement's creepy. It's snowing wayy too much these days to workout outside so I've relocated to the bolted chin-up bar in my basement. Unfortunately the room is currently experiencing electrical issues so I had to improvise with a lamp on the floor. Anyways, I just recieved my new Elite Rings trainers and am loving them so far. Using support on my lower humerus, I can now do more or less full range reps of the Inverted Butterfly. As the video shows, it's still pretty rough and I'm definitely working out the kinks, but hey, progress is progress I'm hoping in the next few months to have an IB with the support on my lower arms, just below the elbow. Besides super slow eccentrics, supported concentrics, and working the Inv. Cross itself, I can't think of too many more ideas how to train something like this. Unless something really outlandish happens, I don't think I'll be uploading progress of this exercise for awhile after this. The blueprints are laid out and now I'm just gonna hit the training hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 One thing I'm finding with the inverted cross is that arching the back (i.e. thrusting my chest out) allows me to engage my chest more; since the pectoral muscles are larger than the lateral deltoids, this lets me exert more force. You might find it fruitful to experiment with performing the inverted butterfly with an open chest to see if you can recruit your pecs more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yaad Mohammad Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 One thing I'm finding with the inverted cross is that arching the back (i.e. thrusting my chest out) allows me to engage my chest more; since the pectoral muscles are larger than the lateral deltoids, this lets me exert more force. You might find it fruitful to experiment with performing the inverted butterfly with an open chest to see if you can recruit your pecs more. Aren't you supposed to maintain a hollow body position when doing the inverted cross? I'm not sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted January 15, 2013 Share Posted January 15, 2013 Aren't you supposed to maintain a hollow body position when doing the inverted cross? I'm not sure though.Mr. Van-Gelder would seem to disagree: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted January 15, 2013 Author Share Posted January 15, 2013 Thanks for the tip @jfslocum. I'll try it because I agree, the pec involvement will likely make it easier. I would, however, like to keep the movement as strict as possible with as straight a body as I can.@yaad, the only inverted crosses I've seen without much arch have been executed by the Chinese Olympic team, and Dong Zhen (possibly my favorite gymnast). Most others seem to have a relatively significant arch, although perhaps you're right, there may be deductions for no hollow body.This is Dong Zhen, and he still arches but I think less than most other pros... Here's Chen, who is also insane at everything. His, Yan Mingyong's, and Zhen's I think are the best I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 Don't forget about Yang Wei's! It's also about as good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 One thing I tried yesterday was holding my chest hollow and then arching my lower back to maintain balance. That also seemed to work reasonably well, but it's hard to say if it was categorically better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted January 18, 2013 Author Share Posted January 18, 2013 @B1214N, also one of my top favorite gymnasts @jfslocum, do you mean in an inverted cross hold? If so, I'll have to screw around with that.Here's my latest endeavor, without any hollow chest, but next time I train I'll try your style Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 @jfslocum, do you mean in an inverted cross hold? If so, I'll have to screw around with that. Yeah, in the hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 So I tried it with more or less hollow chest and an arched lower back. It was awkward and felt much more difficult. Hmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADRIANO FLORES CANO Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I've been wondering always why you train skills that, objectively, there are far away from your skill level right know. It is as if I'll try training full planche on rings with my precious 82kg without even perform it on floor, or paralletes; No matter how you look at it, it's nonsense. Besides all consequences that come: impromer form, injuries, desmotivation, etc etc. Everybody want achieve those skills, but everything it's little by little, small steps follow small steps and you'll reach the sky. But you have to start with basics, and your basics, by watching your videos, it's not clear at all. It's not my intention offending you as person, just it's my thinking about your traning. Regreets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Yeah I've gotten that a lot along my strength journey. I respect your opinion but am going to continue to train the way I want to. Thanks for your concern. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Ok so I figured I'd give the other half of the Inverted Butterfly some love. Here's some footage from tonight, my first night working on the Japanese Handstand. Obviously it'll be awhile before I get a press of the move, and I think I'll focus mainly on wall assisted sets for time.Any advice from anyone training this or who has achieved one would be sick. Also, is the chest supposed to be hollow and the shoulders protracted, neutral...Thanks guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FREDERIC DUPONT Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Very nice Alex_ar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 When I do a japanese handstand, I focus on elevating my shoulders, with some protraction too. Ideally the chest should be slightly hollow, just like a normal handstand. To be honest though, I never trained for one. I just tried the press one day and found I could do it. So unfortunately I can't really recommend any progressions . I can say that do a lot of planches and handstand pushups will help, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik de Kort Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Alex, if you search through the forum there is a post from Coach answering this exact question. I think it was elevated and slightly protracted, but I'm not sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Mainente Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 in my opinion have a solid handstand is important and also handstand with hands turned out. here you can't balance with the fingerts but only with your pecs and palms, and of course elevation of shoulders in important, when you lose it, is better exit from the position. assisted jap hs with partner is the more frequent exercises used in my gym http://youtu.be/RpA76jcOTm8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 and also handstand with hands turned out. here you can't balance with the fingerts but only with your pecs and palms, That is not entirely true. Spreading your fingers affords you a bit more control, because you can press into your thumb or pinky. Also it should be noted that the athlete in the video has a slight flaw in his form: his shoulder angle is close, and he his arching to compensate. Just as in a normal handstand, your goal is to have open shoulders, a slightly hollow chest, and a straight body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Mainente Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 the guy in the video it's me, i'm not really train it frequently but as i do in handstand when you reach an high level of bones positioning you really don't need to balance with your fingers but only using your palm. this is the reason of why i use to do hs with extra rotation to increase balance performance in jap handstand. i can balance without spend to much strength in my fingers to control my body...there are no reason to use different method...and i can focuse on other things, as you say maintain a better hollow position...in the beginning i used to squeeze my fingers on the floor..but now i don't need it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 But alec_ar is in the beginning, so he may find it a useful way to help his balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec_ar Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 Thank you yeah. Maybe I'll try pike press with a partner. As well as leaning against a wall. I think a lot of my issues will be balance related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alessandro Mainente Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 But alec_ar is in the beginning, so he may find it a useful way to help his balance. of course...sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Slocum Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 of course...sorryNo worries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Li Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Also it should be noted that the athlete in the video has a slight flaw in his form: his shoulder angle is close, and he his arching to compensate. Just as in a normal handstand, your goal is to have open shoulders, a slightly hollow chest, and a straight body. How come all Japanese Handstands I've seen are arched to some extent much like all the inverted crosses I've seen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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