Form question for reversed muscle ups

[Joshua Slocum]

I recently began training reverse muscle ups. I can do a slow (~10s), smooth negative, but I'm having trouble when I try to do the motion ascending, e.g. a "positive." I can pull the rings up to about chest-level before I get stuck. I've been performing negatives and attempting positives with my hands in a shoulder-width grip, but in the videos I've seen on this forum (for example, here) the athletes will turn their arms outwards and curl into a wide shoulder stand. Is it necessary to rotate the arms outwards to complete this motion? If not, is it simply harder to do without moving the hands outwards? Are there benefits or risks in training one way versus the other?

[alec_ar]

If I may, I have a feet-on-the-straps reverse muscle up half that I achieved and originally I had the same question. I trained it obsessively with a narrow curling motion and got almost nowhere. So I finally saw an 'elevator' in action by the Czech gymnast in the Berlin Olympics and saw that he essentially did an inverted row, then curled to inverted support. After trying this I was able to do it.

The regular curling version may be possible, but much much harder. But the doable version is still Challenging and a great strength builder. Hope that helps.

[Brian Li]

I've seen it done two ways. One is with a full curl from inverted hang and the other is with an inverted pull-up then rotate and curl to shoulder stand, both are done with the hands going out to side for the curling part. I suppose the inverted curl can be theoretically possible with the hands shoulder width apart if you lean more. Do you guys train with the false grip for this and mirroredrain can you also post the video of the Czech gymnast doing it?

[alec_ar]

Here you go:

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This is where i learned the proper technique for an elevator. took some online digging, very cool old footage. I believe he won gold on rings at Berlin. You may have seen the popular footage on YouTube from 1936 Olympics where this guy does a beautiful an slow handstand lower to inv. cross, lower to iron cross, pull to front lever. Oh, and he starts this one off with a crank Leon Stukelj was his name I believe

[Brian Li]

Thanks, that was very nice! Here are some more clips of the inverted muscle-up with the full curl. I always see it with the arms moving out to the sides.

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[alec_ar]

Thanks for sharing! The bottom one is Gregor ha!

Here's my progress on it, I'm not as strong so I start with a pretty hefty inverted row, then rotate into the curl after. My form is kinda bad, should work on cleaning it up.

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[Daniel Burnham]

Thanks for sharing! The bottom one is Gregor ha!

Here's my progress on it, I'm not as strong so I start with a pretty hefty inverted row, then rotate into the curl after. My form is kinda bad, should work on cleaning it up.

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Honestly that is way more impressive than I expected. How did you work up to that point?

[Brian Li]

Very impressive mirroredrain! Can you also do a rings handstand push-up? If you can then you can do the full reverse MU. If I remember correctly, you can also do adv tuck back lever curls?

[alec_ar]

Thanks you guys! @ Daniel Burnham- honestly just lots of bent arm strength training to begin with...like foot supported pelicans and some behind the back MU's...oh and putting on long sleeves and doing strap assisted reverse MU halves. Other than that just lots of strength training all the way around.

B1214N- um it's been awhile but back when I was training it, I could do an advanced tuck Ian, so yes more or less. I've always been a big bent arm strength fan!

[Brian Li]

Yeah, that was what I remembered. Did you feel that adv tuck back lever curls were harder than this? Also, how much harder would the inverted curl or inv MU half without the false grip be compared to with a false grip?

[alec_ar]

Yes I definitely feel that any type of back lever curl, even the regular tuck is harder than this. Something that I'm working on right now is dipping from a support into a back lever with elbows bent at about 90 degrees, then curling back to support. I'm hoping this can eventually lead to a full Ian. *fingers crossed* I also find this harder.

To answer your previous question that I missed, no I cannot continue into a press handstand! My overhead pressing strength has always been a weakness and I have 'low rings' so handstand training is a pain in the butt haha. And I'll have to try the reverse MU with a normal grip and see. I imagine I won't be able to do it at first!

[Blairbob]

That old video of an elevator looks more like a backward felge to me. You can see how it turns over. It doesn't look the same as the rest of reverse MU which we think of as inverted pullups transition to HSPU versus how he rolls over into a BL curl sort of.

I'm thinking sticking the elbows into your ribs during a reverse muscle-up makes it easier to press into. Sort of like doing a bent arm planche/lever.

[alec_ar]

Correct! Stabbing the elbows makes the reps easier. I can do one full rep without stabbing, and then the others ones require me to plant my elbows in my sides...as for the felge, that's something I think we'd have to ask coach, I've seen his video of Dillion Zrike doing a reverse MU, and he had a small degree of inverted row thrown in.

[Brian Li]

Yes I definitely feel that any type of back lever curl, even the regular tuck is harder than this. Something that I'm working on right now is dipping from a support into a back lever with elbows bent at about 90 degrees, then curling back to support. I'm hoping this can eventually lead to a full Ian. *fingers crossed* I also find this harder.

To answer your previous question that I missed, no I cannot continue into a press handstand! My overhead pressing strength has always been a weakness and I have 'low rings' so handstand training is a pain in the butt haha. And I'll have to try the reverse MU with a normal grip and see. I imagine I won't be able to do it at first!

Yeah, I know Coach put the BL curls as harder than the inverted curl, it's just that I wasn't sure if it was the same for tuck or adv tuck, but it does makes sense now since even in a tuck BL curl you would be curling ~ your whole BW and with the biceps slightly torqued and stretched. Strangely though I used to be able to do a tuck BL supinated grip pull-up/curl, but couldn't even get half way in the inverted curl. I think it was probably because I wasn't using a false grip (I'm weak at false grip in inverted hangs) and I never tried stabbing my elbows and also never did an inverted pull-up before the curl.

As for your Ian variation/progression, it should lead to a full Ian as you increase the ROM. What you're doing now is already insanely HARD! :twisted: Congrats!

Same here with the HSPUs, heck I don't even have a freestanding HS! I have to increase my wrist flexibility before I can even start training them although I might already have enough strength for HSPUs at least in the shoulders since I can full planche, but I'm not sure about the triceps since they're waning and weren't that strong before anyways.

[Brian Li]

That old video of an elevator looks more like a backward felge to me. You can see how it turns over. It doesn't look the same as the rest of reverse MU which we think of as inverted pullups transition to HSPU versus how he rolls over into a BL curl sort of.

I'm thinking sticking the elbows into your ribs during a reverse muscle-up makes it easier to press into. Sort of like doing a bent arm planche/lever.

I think that is a backward felge to handstand instead of the 'Elevator', but it's still an inverted MU albeit with some momentum. The form looks like the same as any other inverted MU which I saw two ways of doing the first half. One is a full inverted curl to shoulderstand and the other one is an inverted chin-up then curl or rotate to shoulderstand. The one in the video looks like it was done with the second way.