some challenging questions about physical prepardeness

[Darius Sohei]

so my questions have to do with having the ability to be able to train in the correct way... i know that some people train poorly and thus as a result have many setbacks, however some people train poorly and do not suffer as many setbacks. further still, some people seem "weak" and "lazy" and cannot seem to be able to put in the necessary work in order to achieve certain goals.

i'm not sure that these people are weak or lazy, but some of them might be. i feel that there is a large part of the population who is very unlucky, whether that's genetically, or socio-economically, or both.

now without going into TOO much detail, i fall under this last category. i am a 32 year old beginner, because for the last 30 years i have been dealing with the fallout from serious traumas and problems. especially the last 6 years, as i have been figuring out a mysterious undiagnosed illness, that seems auto-immune in nature (a mixture of crohn's and rheumatoid arthritis symptoms).

within the last 3 months i have finally been healthy enough to start training. i take about 3 classes a week at the local circus school (90 mins, all bodyweight with some climbing exercises, very generalized classes for beginners of all ages and skill levels)

my specific concerns regard recovery of the joint/tendon/ligaments and of the CNS. i very rarely get to muscular or cardiovascular fatigue, but very quickly get to neurological/CNS fatigue with associated joint/tendon/ligament pain/weakness/instability. this is my limiting factor, and it is very limiting with lots of negative symptoms during recovery, which takes me a very long time and is poor in general.

i have a few questions: does anyone know how to train with an AI condition? how do i recover my CNS faster/better? how do i protect/buffer my CNS from getting to the shutdown stage? i am willing to do whatever it takes, and sometimes i think that may include "illegal" or otherwise esoteric procedures, as i have already dialed in a very specific diet to keep the problems as low as possible, and take a litany of supplements to help my joints and reduce inflammation.

doctors are generally clueless as are most personal trainers - i am at the point where i must search for the unique & rare experts...

[Blairbob]

Ever thought about emailing Robb Wolf or Garrett Smith?

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Congrats on wanting to, and taking action towards a healthier future dsohei

That said, if I read correctly, you have been inactive for 30 years, and training for 3 months only! This is a very, very short time; the type of adaptation from fully sedentary to active takes a heck of a lot more time than you think... it could even be that your CNS (if this is really your limiting factor) is somehow trying to protect your body from harm by stopping you before you break something!

I am not the resident expert, but that seems wrong to me!

Why don't you drop one of your 3 weekly circus sessions, and do only two for the next 6 months and see where that goes for you?

At the same time, you could replace the 3rd session with one hour brisk walk; walking is great for rest and recovery.

Then, if all goes well, introduce one or two more walking sessions over the course of these 6 months.

.........Yet, you are taking multiple supplements and are looking for the magic pill... :shock:

"THERE ARE NO MAGHIC POTIONS "

Supplements wise, I would stop everything and fix my diet first (plenty of good threads here to get you started)...

Then, maybe, reintroduce supplements in limited amounts...

Good luck

[Darius Sohei]

Ever thought about emailing Robb Wolf or Garrett Smith?

i have emailed robb, didnt get picked for the show, i should probably try again, worded differently. i have asked similar questions on robb's forum - again, could use a re-try. garrett just says do all these tests (which i've done, pretty much dead ends)

[Darius Sohei]

Congrats on wanting to, and taking action towards a healthier future dsohei

That said, if I read correctly, you have been inactive for 30 years, and training for 3 months only! This is a very, very short time; the type of adaptation from fully sedentary to active takes a heck of a lot more time than you think... it could even be that your CNS (if this is really your limiting factor) is somehow trying to protect your body from harm by stopping you before you break something!

I am not the resident expert, but that seems wrong to me!

Why don't you drop one of your 3 weekly circus sessions, and do only two for the next 6 months and see where that goes for you?

At the same time, you could replace the 3rd session with one hour brisk walk; walking is great for rest and recovery.

Then, if all goes well, introduce one or two more walking sessions over the course of these 6 months.

.........Yet, you are taking multiple supplements and are looking for the magic pill... :shock:

"THERE ARE NO MAGHIC POTIONS "

Supplements wise, I would stop everything and fix my diet first (plenty of good threads here to get you started)...

Then, maybe, reintroduce supplements in limited amounts...

Good luck

well i haven't been inactive, not like, an overweight couch slob

i have always maintained a strong urban bike riding routine, plus walking everywhere (never owned a car my whole life), working physical jobs all my life. before i got really sick (6 years ago) i was doing a lot of modern dance and yoga - i wasnt into strength training or gymnastics stuff until i got sick and my life became research and i discovered gray cook, paleo and everything else.

i didnt go into my extensive dietary expertise, but thats what i fine-tuned and put the a.i. symptoms in 90% remission. i'm cross posting on multiple forums and sometimes i forget what i've said where haha! i eat a very fine-tuned paleo diet. but there are many supps i have to take or else i just start to get worse (yes its a shit story, but i HAVE improved dramatically over the last half decade so i must be going in the right direction - i couldnt even train 1x per week a few years ago)

[Coach Sommer]

you have been inactive for 30 years, and training for 3 months only! ... This is a very, very short time; the type of adaptation from fully sedentary to active takes a heck of a lot more time than you think ... Why don't you drop one of your 3 weekly circus sessions, and do only two for the next 6 months and see where that goes for you? ... At the same time, you could replace the 3rd session with one hour brisk walk; walking is great for rest and recovery ... Then, if all goes well, introduce one or two more walking sessions over the course of these 6 months.

Excellent advice.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Given what I have read so far, I think you should do two things:

1) Use a MET table and figure out how many calories you expend during the parts of your day you are either doing physical work, biking, walking, etc.

2) Tell me if you are replacing all of those calories in close to real-time. A general macronutrient breakdown would be great, but not strictly necessary.

I won't get into food choices because if your symptoms are going into remission then you are doing what you need to do for your situation. As far as general macronutrients go, I think you will find that you are not getting enough carbohydrates. I say that both as a general statement since this is an issue with Paleo across the board as well as a specific statement addressing your physical activity time.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

Thanks Coach , I am learning...

I could only know what you had said dsohei, if it is not suitable for you, it is okay; maybe Joshua Naterman has just posted good info that you can use.

[Darius Sohei]

you have been inactive for 30 years, and training for 3 months only! ... This is a very, very short time; the type of adaptation from fully sedentary to active takes a heck of a lot more time than you think ... Why don't you drop one of your 3 weekly circus sessions, and do only two for the next 6 months and see where that goes for you? ... At the same time, you could replace the 3rd session with one hour brisk walk; walking is great for rest and recovery ... Then, if all goes well, introduce one or two more walking sessions over the course of these 6 months.

Excellent advice.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

fyi, i didnt go from completely sedentary at all. i said i was a beginner but i didnt expect that to be interpreted as fast slob with no activity level.

[Darius Sohei]

Thanks Coach , I am learning...

I could only know what you had said dsohei, if it is not suitable for you, it is okay; maybe Joshua Naterman has just posted good info that you can use.

i just couldnt predict how my original post would be interpreted. reducing work load would "work" but maybe not to the goal i want. i know im not a child, but when gymnasts start to train as children, do they only train 2x a week? i suppose its a case by case basis, but im pretty sure there are recovery techniques and program variables that i am ignorant of that slow me down.

and there are actually "magic pills" for certain situations. there is a supplement called serovera, which is an extract of aloe vera, that puts IBD and IBS symptoms very far into remission, about 50% in my experience. science and reality do not really care about our beliefs so much.

[Darius Sohei]

Given what I have read so far, I think you should do two things:

1) Use a MET table and figure out how many calories you expend during the parts of your day you are either doing physical work, biking, walking, etc.

2) Tell me if you are replacing all of those calories in close to real-time. A general macronutrient breakdown would be great, but not strictly necessary.

I won't get into food choices because if your symptoms are going into remission then you are doing what you need to do for your situation. As far as general macronutrients go, I think you will find that you are not getting enough carbohydrates. I say that both as a general statement since this is an issue with Paleo across the board as well as a specific statement addressing your physical activity time.

when u say "in real time" do you mean replacing the cals within a certain period of times, like 4 hours? i do eat after work, after workouts, after biking, after stresses, etc. i get my carbs from simple sugars dextrose, sucrose, some ripe tropical fruits. i eat them to satiety. cant do starches very much due to the crohn's issue. but i am pretty good at eating what my body tells me to eat - grass fed meat, gelatin, sat fats, sugars.

that MET table is hard to do, but just from looking at my body composition, i am not skinny, ripped, or losing weight. i am gaining some muscle, but am probably still around 20% body fat, most of it probably has to do with hormonal dysregulation and inflammation. i jst want to recover recover recover, this is my limiting factor. and just eating a lot seems to be a stress in itself, so i stop eating when i start to feel that feeling.

[Coach Sommer]

... i know im not a child, but when gymnasts start to train as children, do they only train 2x a week? ...

Yes.

Your current situation appears to have nothing to do with your chronological age and everything to do with a diminished recovery ability and work capacity. There are no supplements or special programming tricks which can allow you to sidestep your current physical limitations. Brief, hard, consistent work is the only solution. You will know when your recovery ability has improved when you are capable of performing more work.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Blairbob]

Most 3-5yo, start out with 40 minutes to 1 hour, once a week. This is pretty typical for recreational children unless they get picked for the developmental program.

That can often be twice a week at an hour to 75 minutes, very rarely 90 minutes. Most developmental squads start taking kids as early as 4. I've never seen any take 3 that I can recall but maybe we've done it or it's been done and I can't remember. I'm pretty sure we've taken kids at 3 1/2 or getting close to 4. For boys, I generally wait till 4+ and pre-K and 1hour per class.

[Darius Sohei]

... i know im not a child, but when gymnasts start to train as children, do they only train 2x a week? ...

Yes.

Your current situation appears to have nothing to do with your chronological age and everything to do with a diminished recovery ability and work capacity. There are no supplements or special programming tricks which can allow you to sidestep your current physical limitations. Brief, hard, consistent work is the only solution. You will know when your recovery ability has improved when you are capable of performing more work.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

thanks, this is good perspective. one thing i am lacking is a suitable path to model.

[Darius Sohei]

Most 3-5yo, start out with 40 minutes to 1 hour, once a week. This is pretty typical for recreational children unless they get picked for the developmental program.

That can often be twice a week at an hour to 75 minutes, very rarely 90 minutes. Most developmental squads start taking kids as early as 4. I've never seen any take 3 that I can recall but maybe we've done it or it's been done and I can't remember. I'm pretty sure we've taken kids at 3 1/2 or getting close to 4. For boys, I generally wait till 4+ and pre-K and 1hour per class.

so what i'm getting is that for a beginner in gymnastics/circus training - it's best to do 2 very GOOD, brief (90 mins or less depending on total amount of rest periods in said session), intense w/perfect form sessions a week and then focus on active recovery until recovery and work capacity improves as a result of better connective tissue strength and neurological efficiency.

[Karl Kallio]

urban bike riding routine ...walking everywhere ... working physical jobs all my life.... modern dance and yoga

It seems to me that a lot of your previous activity was predominately lower body and probably was more endurance than strength oriented. So it's not a big surprise that you're feeling a big challenge doing gymnastics-type training in a circus school- it's new and different. On the positive side you said that you don't feel limited by the muscular and cardiovascular components. Lots of people do.

I am not an expert but it seems to me an error to model your training program after what young children do. Everything is new to them, and their bodies are rapidly growing and adapting. You have 32 years of neuro-motor patterns, 32 years of bone maturation etc and that stuff, positive or negative, affects your progress. I would say that you should use your knowledge of your body to your advantage and be conscious of the "renovations" on ligaments, joints etc that you have underway.

You talked about

joint/tendon/ligament pain/weakness/instability. this is my limiting factor....lots of negative symptoms during recovery, which takes me a very long time and is poor in general.

Maybe you need to workout a light recovery workout to alternate with your heavy group workout. I wouldn't say walking, if you always do that and it hasn't done the job for you. Maybe something like some light aerobic activity followed by some sort of light stretching and use of upper-body strength. Something like <> rowing machine followed by stretching or a bike ride followed by yoga.

BTW have you tried cold, heat, massage etc?

[Nic Branson]

Do you need to train all at once? With your current recoverability either done or two 40-60min sessions a well with good rest breaks or more 10-15min sessions throughout. Pick ONE movement do it then walk away. No need to push yourself too hard right now. Ease in.