NaterMania

Ortprod: Oh yea, that would be awesome! I plan on being at all the Arizona seminars so hopefully you'll be there one of these days!

Newguy: They're pretty good, I really like them. I'm starting to use them for my GVT. That's my plan on Thursday... I expect to be sore after that.

So, an update:

My ankle is showing bruising, but I am now able to do a shuffling jog on the balls of my feet as well as calf raises and slow calf bounces. It will be a little while but I don't think it will be a long recovery, so my vertical training won't be impacted too much. Showing up in May with a 40" standing vert would be AWESOME! I'm at 24-28" now, head measured. I can touch the ceiling with my head and that's 24", and that's holding back a little for neck health purposes!

Today's training: ankle mobility, GVT for BtN press, though I did 3 of the sets in front of the neck. 10x10 with 70 lbs! First time I've gotten through the sets with one weight. In front is a bit different, I don't do much there because I am still unbalanced and that could reinforce bad patterns, but the little I did felt ok.

Tonight's training was GVT for scapular retraction and scapular push ups. This is getting much, much better. 10x10 with 120 lbs for retractions and BW for the scap pushups. These are getting very solid. I HIGHLY recommend that everyone do this for a while, as the scapular muscles really are 100% vital for upper body strength. I don't know how important they are in O lifting, but for strength they are key. I've noticed my handstand getting very steady and my FL work is better.

I am starting to differentiate my warm up into two warm ups, one for M/TH and one for T/F. I may even make small variations in the M vs TH and so on, but this way I can spend less time and work 1-3 sets of certain skills so that I start making good progress in a lot more things.

Overall I am thrilled with my application of everything we've learned from the seminars so far. Using the proper progressions for FL is great. I still have trouble with BL on rings but a bar is ok for now. I am actually having a lot more fun just concentrating on the XR support holds and leaving planche training alone until I nail a good 60s L sit. I have a feeling that I am going to make much better progress that way, just as is hinted at in the book when Coach talks about the correlation between L sit and FL. I am also placing a higher priority on HS work, both because Coach is quite firm in his assertion that HS ability is very important and also because I can work it without messing up the progress I am making with my shoulders!

Oh, yes HS work is essential, in fact it is the most important thing in all of gymnastics training. And has quite a huge carryover effect into everything else

Yea, at first like everyone seems to be I was obsessed with planche because it looks so cool, but I am really quite happy about my handstands. It's awesome for people to be like "whoa, you're holding a handstand and walking one step at a time!" and then go back to what they were doing, turn around 20s later and say " Holy crap, you're still up?!" It is amazing how magical people seem to think handstands are.

I know, its amazing the reactions you get, like I was jumping on a trampoline and doing some different tricks (Standing Back tuck, poor quality layout ect...) And no one really seemed to care, or was that impressed. But when I did a handstand on the ground, they almost could not believe it

Dear gymnastics, I love you :wink:

Slizz, how are doing your MU-s?

I'm not so much in GB forum lately (study, training and work) so I don't follow everything

I haven't been practicing them because my elbows were acting up. I am feeling better now, but I am doing higher volume work for a while to rebuild everything around my elbows. I think that as my shoulders slowly get better I will be improving a lot on the MU's, but for now I'm just starting to get back into the false grip pull ups! I am starting to do more false grip work because it really, really helps with just about everything that is multi-planar, even when I'm not using the false grip!

Overall progress has been good and I have bought some spring steel strips that I am using for rotator and forearm conditioning. They are actually a part of a metal bending trainer that I have resurrected from the early 1900's! However I have noticed that they have some unique training applications that should make them very useful to a large variety of athletes, especially gymnasts and arm wrestlers. I am starting to realize that a lot of my elbow issues are actually coming from my forearm muscles and not from my biceps!

So, to work on some of this I have started doing leaning pelicans in the false grip (just curls from BL to a bent arm support) and my PB dips for sets of 10 reps, with each rep taking 5-6 seconds. I was very surprised to find that using the false grip so much actually made my forearms quite sore all around! There is more being worked in that position than I thought. I have found that very low intensity, very high volume training with very little rest is working wonders for my injuries.

Other than that, I've just been working on the WODs and having fun! Doing better all the time!

How are your shoulders doing with the mobility?

Great, just needed do decrease it on a strength days, due to strength droping...

Yea, that can happen. I'm trying to work on my shoulder mobility as well, it is a slow process!

Hey man would you mind taking a look in my log and critique my latest weights workout with focus on gymnastics strength? That'd make me very happy

slizzardman said:

That is really an almost impossible question to answer, but I am sure 1.5-2xBW is a reasonable estimate. The more backwards your fingers are the higher your bench will be, that is for sure. Now, XR planche push ups? Hahaha... I'm sure 2x BW. Certainly at my size with my bigger legs.

Well, yesterday's WOD was great, that was the first time I completed a dynamic leg WOD exactly as prescribed. Well, almost. I didn't do the 5 depth jumps because I did 10 off of the box(retaining wall), and that was plenty on asphalt. I actually ended up doing twice the number of depth jumps prescribed.

Later that day I made use of my "warm up" card that I made! It is a double sided business card that has my entire general warm up and prehab. It took me about 40 minutes to complete. I will be creating specific versions of this for each workout day, but for now this general one is what I am doing. I also did my first retraction and protraction GVT workout, along with my second BTN press GVT! So far so good, but I'm barely 12 hours PWO so we'll see how I feel TOMORROW! I already feel a lot better than last time, and the 10x10 retractions allowed me to actually feel the exact areas I am weak in the right shoulder. I've never felt anything like it. My last 5 sets were 7 reps. I have also 'discovered' that spending most of the time in concentric contraction is WAY WAY WAY HARDER than most of the time in eccentric contraction. Holy crap. I have never worked so hard to do something so light in my life. Way more lactic acid. I also was able to keep my weight at 65 lbs for the BTN press, better than last time! 2x75, 8x65 at 9-10 reps per set. A definite improvement.

AFTER the workout I found out that I can do a 2-3 second perfect straight bar front lever. I am totally going to be rocking hard by May.

In the same vein what do you expect to back squat/deadlift?

Brandon Green

slizzardman said:

Here is my proposed idea:

1: there will be two sessions each WOD day, the WOD and the integral training. They will occur in that order. Prehab done in the WOD warm up will remain there, primarily as a GTG-type element, as it is now. I will perform my integral training later in a separate session.

2: My hypothesis, which I have already started to test myself:

The integral training will start as a German Volume Training protocol, because this is going to produce rapid vascularization of these key areas. These are all fairly small muscles so hypertrophy will not present any real obstacle to gymnastic progress as this hypertrophy will, I believe, be necessary in the long run. I believe that specific training adaptations like vascularization and increased mitochondrial count, which allow for faster healing and more efficient nutrient absorption/utilization, are absolutely necessary.

This can only be accomplished by producing extremely high levels of lactic acid, which in turn can only be done by high repetition work done with low rest. Traditionally this has been shied away from since this type of work will usually cause transitional muscle fibers to recondition themselves as endurance fibers. The workaround for this shortfall is laughably simple... Keep the load low enough to where you never engage hardly any of these transitional fibers. The existing fibers that are already either permanently endurance type or that are already very conditioned for endurance will be the only ones working when utilizing a 30% 1RM workload or less, and possibly up to 40% or thereabouts. These fibers have a fairly low threshold for hypertrophy and will be working fairly close to their inherent limitations, and as such they will actually become stronger, which in turn will allow you to raise the weight slowly over time if you wish without eliciting fiber type conversion to any significant degree. There WILL be hypertrophy, but it will not be anywhere near as significant as if you were stimulating more of the muscle fibers, and the very high amounts of lactic acid produced from local glycogen metabolism will stimulate the body to produce more local capillaries and more mitochondria.

This is to be something of a steady state cycle, though the weight may never even need to be increased to maintain benefits, so it could be a permanent static cycle. I don't know about that part yet. The body WILL adapt to this sort of training, especially with the load so low and fixed, to the point where it can easily handle it on a weekly basis, which is all that is needed. Eventually it will not longer challenge the body, which is what we want. So, in the short term there will be a perceived loss of strength as you do this, but there will be no actual loss as I (and you) will still be able to perform the WODs. Healing will actually be accelerated over time through this method.

Exercise selection should be limited to what will most effectively work the muscles. This means primarily shrug variations for the shoulders, as these will strengthen the scapular muscles most effectively, with rotator cuff work being peformed as well. The external rotators will get worked to some degree during various scapular retractions as they must maintain the humerus' position in the glenoid 'socket'. Actual external rotation work is less important, I think, and will be treated as such, but it will still be performed as the rotator cuff msuculature is extremely important. I actually think that supraspinatus is the most important rotator cuff muscle to focus on, but initially it will be treated the same as the external rotators. For the hips, internal and external rotation in a full squat and in the crab position will be used along with bands.

I recently made the connection between vascularization and tendon strength. After reading Primal Blueprint everything clicked.

I realized I needed to promote as much vascularization as possible while limiting the gaining of slow-twitch fibers in order to have strong healthy joints. While I am strong my recovery sucks because I only used low reps and high intensity. I was thinking of methods to promote vascularization, and one that seemed like an awesome idea was using a sledge hammer. I would think that beating a tire with a sledge hammer in a wood splitting motion,alternating sides, would not only promote vascularization, but also build power and develop my shouldersin the process. I would love your critique of this thought, Slizzardman. Thanks for any help; I greatly appreciate the time you put into helping others on this forum.

It could work, I mean anything done for enough TUT will work. If you want to limit fiber type conversion you need to stay at a very low intensity, like 30-40%. Keep in mind that sledgehammer work tends to be explosive in nature, so don't go all out. As funny as it sounds, slow arm circles are some of the best things you can do. Just be prepared: It's going to suck at first!

The sledgehammer work will develop your serratus and lats more than anything else, but I suppose rear delts will be hit too. I never really got as much from a sledgehammer as people seem to think they get, but for this purpose it could work. You'll need to go by TUT, not time working, if you want this to work, and you will not want to alternate sides. You're probably looking at 100-120 reps, as TUT isn't going to be more than .5 seconds, probably more like .2-.3 seconds per rep, and there's going to be rest in there as well. The lift and the slam do not count together, as they are working completely different muscle groups. So, for ultimate results, it would seem like 200 reps per side would be appropriate. You are almost certainly not going to be doing that at first, so scale into that. I think that 40-60 reps per side would be a good starting point unless you find that to be very easy.

cccp22 said:

slizzardman said:

That is really an almost impossible question to answer, but I am sure 1.5-2xBW is a reasonable estimate. The more backwards your fingers are the higher your bench will be, that is for sure. Now, XR planche push ups? Hahaha... I'm sure 2x BW. Certainly at my size with my bigger legs.

Well, yesterday's WOD was great, that was the first time I completed a dynamic leg WOD exactly as prescribed. Well, almost. I didn't do the 5 depth jumps because I did 10 off of the box(retaining wall), and that was plenty on asphalt. I actually ended up doing twice the number of depth jumps prescribed.

Later that day I made use of my "warm up" card that I made! It is a double sided business card that has my entire general warm up and prehab. It took me about 40 minutes to complete. I will be creating specific versions of this for each workout day, but for now this general one is what I am doing. I also did my first retraction and protraction GVT workout, along with my second BTN press GVT! So far so good, but I'm barely 12 hours PWO so we'll see how I feel TOMORROW! I already feel a lot better than last time, and the 10x10 retractions allowed me to actually feel the exact areas I am weak in the right shoulder. I've never felt anything like it. My last 5 sets were 7 reps. I have also 'discovered' that spending most of the time in concentric contraction is WAY WAY WAY HARDER than most of the time in eccentric contraction. Holy crap. I have never worked so hard to do something so light in my life. Way more lactic acid. I also was able to keep my weight at 65 lbs for the BTN press, better than last time! 2x75, 8x65 at 9-10 reps per set. A definite improvement.

AFTER the workout I found out that I can do a 2-3 second perfect straight bar front lever. I am totally going to be rocking hard by May.

In the same vein what do you expect to back squat/deadlift?

Brandon Green

I don't have any expectations, but I'll be happy when my squat equals my deadlift. I deadlift 450 even without training it, so that's where I want my ATG squat eventually. I don't mind if that takes a few years though! It is not my priority. I am working on my vertical jump and sprinting speed, so I am doing mostly dynamic work as my rate of force development is sorely lacking but strength is fairly good. My RoFD used to be excellent, so I think I can get that back to a large degree.

Anything new happening in your workouting days? Or have you stopped

Nah, I haven't stopped, but I haven't done much in the past week. I'm ramping back up again.

Everything is progressing nicely, I certainly can't complain!

Sweet How's your PL coming on?

I don't train it, I couldn't tell you. I could do advanced tuck for 5s on the last ring strength that asked for it.

My supports are getting very strong, my shoulder is feeling better, and I am making good progress with FL and L sit pre-reqs, which happen to be very similar for the most part.

Leg strength and speed is moving up, foot and ankle strength is quite possibly at a lifetime high. Wrists and elbows are coming along nicely as well, the GVT with supported wrist rollers and XR bicep curls are outstanding for the forearm muscles that cross the elbow.

slizzardman said:

I don't train it, I couldn't tell you. I could do advanced tuck for 5s on the last ring strength that asked for it.

My supports are getting very strong, my shoulder is feeling better, and I am making good progress with FL and L sit pre-reqs, which happen to be very similar for the most part.

Leg strength and speed is moving up, foot and ankle strength is quite possibly at a lifetime high. Wrists and elbows are coming along nicely as well, the GVT with supported wrist rollers and XR bicep curls are outstanding for the forearm muscles that cross the elbow.

Sweet

I've read through your entire log, Slizzardman. What a great read!

The extreme isometrics you wrote about a pages back are very fascinating. I decided to try them yesterday, and you were right! Although they were very taxing, I'm not sore at all today! I'm going to think about incorporating these into my every day routine or at least 5 days a week! Not only that, they're "fun"!

Also, it's interesting that extreme iso's are so associated with increasing explosive ability/potential. There's a 2nd degree black belt in my club who, although very slender and wiry, is lightning fast and hits very hard, and he's mentioned doing very long static wall squat holds (his father made him do it ). I would not be surprised that a lot of his explosive abilities (which really are outstanding) are the results of the isometric base he built up over many years.

Absolutely. The old style of martial art training was very, very intelligent. They did not know the biochemical whatever-the-hell but they realized that they were getting incredible performance increases from what they were doing. Can't go wrong there lol!

Well, it's been a while so I thought I would update.

I've been doing a lot of self IASTM which is fabulous and has completely transformed my arms from wrecked to practically brand new. I have been working on a lot of scapular mobility and stability as a part of my warm up, with pretty good success. I am getting stronger and stronger, more and more stable. That's what I like.

I have been taking time to really expand my knowledge and scour the avaiable information both online and in print for the purpose of designing the most advanced publicly available training on the planet. It will be online sometime this year and I am proud and grateful that the Gymnsatic Bodies program is a core element in what I believe to be the most revolutionary and effective training system that there is. What I will be creating can not be done properly without the GB books. I expect that will generate revenue here, and perhaps lead to a new influx of active members.

I am seeing excellent results myself, and I am looking forward to helping everyone get the same for themselves if that is what they desire.

FSP progressions are moving right along, my elbows are feeling incredibly good, and my shoulder is the best it's been in years. My right shoulder is not healthy enough to really train my upper body hard, which is really frustrating, but I am steadily moving in that direction.

I have a solid 3-5s front lever again, and I can do several flat tuck planche push ups on PB with no pain or stability issues. SLS with 30 lbs is super easy now, and I am starting to truly train my lower body and core for the first time in years. We should see some pretty spectacular results between now and the end of the year.

News: I have made my first switch from my re-introduction program to a new set of strength training. Weighted russian dips, weighted PB dips, and DB bench press for upper and weighted pull ups and assymetrical dumbbell rows will be my primary upper body strength work for the next month or so. Vertical pressing is still somewhat problematic and messes with my shoulder at training weights so it is staying extremely light with frequent wall handstands being the primary component. BtGB work is in my warm up to maintain certain base abilities, such as PPP, FL pull and front pull, BL pulls, etc.

Ok, this is the first update in a while.

Status update: I have successfully constructed a home E-stim device for 30 dollars. Yes, it is happening! What's the point of this? Great question, so here's a great answer.

1) Proper use of e-stim allows you to increase the strength of any muscle group by 17-20% in ONE MONTH. Yes, that's correct. Just as importantly, the strength gains actually CONTINUE to accumulate by a few more percent for the next 5 months. Seriously. 1 month twice a year to see gains of 40% yearly. That is any athlete's wet dream. Now granted, as you get stronger the percentage probably decreases, but who cares?!?! The ability to stay at peak strength for that long is insane. Researchers believe this effect is caused by long-term restructuring of the nervous system. It is unclear whether this percentage is the same with each bi-yearly treatment or even whether this schedule is ideal. It could be that after 8 weeks of no e-stim it is time for e-stim again. No research of this type has been done.

2) I can use this to re-educate my scapular muscles on the right side and strengthen them at the same time. This is, in my opinion, the most important part for me.

3) I can use this to specifically target muscles that are hard to work maximally using voluntary methods. External rotators and small muscles of the forearms in particular. This, all by itself, is something that every gymnastics gym in the country should be using e-stim for. Consider this: 10 minutes a day per gymnast would be all it takes (and all that would be helpful) to ensure maximal strength of the small elbow flexors at all times. What's the longest part of gymnastic conditioning? Elbow conditioning. E-stim in combination with Coach's joint prep would be IDEAL for joint protection of the wrists and elbows.

This should be of primary interest to injured gymnasts like Gregor. The ability to reduce healing time by 2/3 AND rebuild strength in the smaller muscles at the same time is invaluable.

I wrote much more, but I realized that it was far to valuable to post openly.

Other news:

Chinese medicine is awesome. I have medicated plasters, which are flexible highly adhesive band-aid-like patches infused with certain combinations of herbs along with menthol and camphor. They are to be work for 24 hours at a time, and they dramatically reduce pain and increase bloodflow under the patch. They work. I will be using these for my elbow and shoulder recovery to speed things along, in the hopes that I will be able to do swinging dips and other fun elements at the May seminar.

Finally! An update!

I don't know much about it, but I've never heard of EMS being used for anything outside of physical therapy. Now that you mention it, though, it seems perfectly natural that it would be.

Well, these medicated plasters are incredible. Seriously. They do NOT come off during sweaty, full ROM dynamic workouts. Pretty amazing. It's time for me to change them, so we'll see how that goes. I understand they can sometimes be unwilling to remove themselves, but the pain relief and circulation benefits are amazing. I am very impressed.

I got real electrodes in the mail so I can test with something better than my ghettofied salt water sponge + electrical box cover electrodes. I will be hooking up my meter and testing amperage to see how much juice is going in, I am excited! My ghetto plates worked great, I did one full strength/power protocol for my right forearm extensors and flexors. Now for the second.

In other news, my strength is rapidly moving forward. In the past two weeks I have moved from 35 to 45 lbs SLS and I am rapidly approaching a very comfortable OAC. I am only using my pinkie for the assisting hand so I am pulling at least 75% of my bw based on my known pinkie strength of around 50 lbs. I am also not working it all that hard, so we'll see. It would be cool to have OAC by the May seminar. I have also developed a very powerful full lay front pull, complete to vertical hang, with a 10s very slow negative through FL with a brief stop on the way down. I didn't expect to build that kind of strength so quickly. vertical pressing is also increasing quite well.

No fatigue at all so far. If anything I feel worse on days I don't work out, the exact opposite of feeling like I need rest. I'm not used to this, but it's great.

I got my medical electrodes, four 2"x4" ovals and two 1.5"x6" strips.

These definitely are a little more comfortable than my ghetto electrodes and make better contact, producing better contractions. Second session for right forearm, first session for right rear delts and infraspinatus. Felt great, very encouraging. I am looking forward to getting a real machine so that I can work both of my forearms and external rotators at the same time.

Apparently I went to sleep before posting this. Oops!