Christian Nogueira Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Hello,First of all, let me give a big thank you in advance to Coach and the Gymnastic Bodies community for the knowledge shared on this site.I have the exact same problem as the OP in this post viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1717 . In the start of the pull, my shoulder doesn't feel strong in the position and it feels like it snaps out of place in the transition. This happens on chin ups if I tuck my legs to my chest, as doing a proper l-chin up feels even worse. I feel a bit worried training this movement as the last time, my shoulder didn't feel alright for 4 days. From what I understand it's a weakness in that position due to some inflexibility, but what exercises can I do to address this weakness (it's not clear in that post) ? I can do shoulder dislocates and wall extensions without pain and assume a hollow with reasonably open shoulders and in a belly to wall wandstand my hands are about 10 to 15 centimeters from the wall. I can't do lat flys and dorsal pushups very well however. Would these to exercises address my weaknesses. I am also thinking that doing very slow controlled pull ups or chinups focusing on a straight body and hollow position like slizzardman's video might help, is this correct ?I am also learning the front lever, currently at the 1st progression (tuck lever). Is it normal to feel some stretch around the front of the shoulders (like below clavicle almost in the pectoral really) and elbow, or is this indicative of bad form ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Well, obviously you should develop that L-hold. That's basic 101. You could do regular pullup, pronated or supinated, and then work a negative down in L. This will be easier than breaking off the bottom of the hang in L. Even holding the L requires the shoulder to stabilize some. Other stuff would include skin-the-cats/360 pulls. These are great for basically everything in your upper body and core. Doing a L pullup supinated is generally easier than pronated. Especially when breaking off the bottom. Actually last thursday I got in early to the gym and managed to do a bit of ring work. One of these was starting off with a tuck FL hold and extending to adv tuck before I came down. My pecs were quite tight from that. Surprised myself really with how the contraction felt. It didn't hurt, but man it got tight. Bare in mind, I haven't really worked tuck FL consistently since mid June. I've been doing some skin the cats the past week but not just locking off a hold. I'm sure the FL will also tax your elbow a bit if you're not used to it. How many pronated and supinated pullups can you perform? Just regular tempo. How long can you hold an L-hang? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Nogueira Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 I can do about 9 to 11 regular pronated pullups as max. If I train the tuck FL first, it somehow saps my strength that I can only reach 6 or 7, even though, other than that stretch in the pecs, I don't feel tired after the tuck FL, so the movement is obviously training some weak link.To be honest I hadn''t thought on simply holding the L-hang, but now it seems obvious . I'll work these in my workout. I've tried negative L-chins the other day, but my shoulder popped anyway when I reached the bottom of the hang. I might've been a bit tired when I tried those, so I'll try to work these negatives as warmup, (and not being stubborn in holding the L or tuck if my shoulder feels weak). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Dano Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 And once L-hang is ok, you can add L-hang shrugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Honestly, I don't think I've ever tried an L-hang shrugs in the last 10 years or so. Well at 10 pullups, you are ready to move on to the next progression. For now, I would continue to work L-hang in your warmups and try working on Tucked L pullups instead of L pullup. L pullup is sort of like a weighted pullup. I'm sure if I did some fancy math, we could figure out a general equation for how much extra load is on your shoulder. It would differ from person to person of course. I don't think it would be exactly the weight of the lower limbs from hip to toe but it might be or calculating the load of that lever. Because it's like a weighted pullup, you don't want to jump too fast while doing them. Tuck so the load is lighter and if that feels like too much, do a regular pullup and tuck on the descent or "low/lazy" pike which would be a pike that isn't at horizontal. For reference, right now I think I am good for at least 12 pullups with a light warmup but I haven't really tested in a few weeks. I've been mainly working them in a neutral grip the past month so that's the grip I've been using. At most let's say 15 but I doubt it. Maybe 13 or 14. I did about 7 in L neutral grip before I was losing my grip. I think this was due to the fact that it was hot and my hands were getting slippery on the metal bar. No, I don't have any chalk and it was at a neighborhood park (barely the size of a house lot) around the corner. This was after my first set of the day a few hours of only 7 (lots of 135lb power cleans on Saturday). I also did about 3 wide arm L. Still a bit much for the left elbow as these were in pronated. My left elbow still hates that I guess. Might have to go to left pronated, right supinated or just back off that progression for now and try L in supinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Dano Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Given the OPs complaint, I still maintain doing some shrugs from that position would be a helpful 'prehab' exercise and to help figure out the straight arm portion of the full movement, develop active ROM etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik de Kort Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 L pullup is sort of like a weighted pullup. I'm sure if I did some fancy math, we could figure out a general equation for how much extra load is on your shoulder. It would differ from person to person of course. I don't think it would be exactly the weight of the lower limbs from hip to toe but it might be or calculating the load of that lever.You can't compare an L-pullup with a weighted pullup, since there are some horizontal force vectors in the L (you sort of have to push down on the bar in order to get your centre of mass under it) that are not present in the weighted pullup. So while you could make up an equation, but it'd be useless because the force direction is not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Branson Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Appears to me that you're not able to pull your shoulders reliably back into their sockets and keep them there. Hanging shrugs in various positions and shrug holds in various positions would be my first step. If your shoulders are rotating forward as you pull also look at lat activation and / or tightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Nogueira Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Hello,It's definitely some issue in keeping the right shoulder firmly inside the socket when initiating the pull. I'm not sure what you mean by forward shoulder rotation. I think part of the problem is my elbow kind of moves to the side in the pull instead of going straight down. I think that in a regular pullup that motion isn't as problematic.Will definitely include some shrug holds with the L-hang. It's definitely how I start the tuck lever so it doubles as a warmup for that.Thanks for all the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks, Rik. I said was similar not the same. There is more load in a sense than a straight body but no idea how much. It is harder, I think we all know that, and probably too tasking for the OP's shoulder ATM. Sounds like we got some shoulder laxity going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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