best tecnique to develop OAC

[Alessandro Mainente]

during the last 2 week i've tried some methods to reach this skill but unfortunately i don't know what works better than the other.

in your opinion there is a beast way:

1- oac assisted putting the arm wich assist the movement more low near the supporto of the bar and after far from the arm that pull and after far an low (progressively)

2- use a pulley system and work with just one arm chin, with no assistance of the other arm and removing the necessary weigth

3- use the pulley system combinend with assisted oac: this method is strange but i thougth to that by random. simply i do a normal oac with one arm, and the other is pulling down on a pulley system, in this way i can control the effective assistence i need to do the oac with the other arm and decrease it progressively.

i don't know really if this method can work better then others. someone of you have ever tried this last one?

thanks for the attention

[George Navarro]

People on the forum have talked about getting the oac w/ FL work just b/c the oac is a lot more lat intensive than on the biceps. But from your list of options, I like the 2nd one because the other arm assist is something I try to avoid w/ the thick bars in my house.

[Paradox]

People on the forum have talked about getting the oac w/ FL work just b/c the oac is a lot more lat intensive than on the biceps. But from your list of options, I like the 2nd one because the other arm assist is something I try to avoid w/ the thick bars in my house.

Na, I'm not so sure this would work. FL is good, but the OAC requires specific work to achieve it. It needs more lat strength than the FL. The biceps tendon would also need more work than it gets from FL.

I like the first method, with the arm assist. If there isn't a bar, the wrist method can be used (grab one arm at the wrist, then move on to the middle of the forearm, then the end of the forearm, etc etc until you reach the shoulder). Negatives should also help.

[Chris Edgar]

Hi Alex,

the other method that hasn't been mentioned yet, and the one that got me my first dead hang OAC, is negatives...

Slow eccentrics also got me my muscle ups, a long time ago, and I don't think they should be underestimated.

Very slow (10s+) negatives and weighted negatives were very useful to me, especially the last portion where you completely straighten your arm and relax your scapular, i find this part of the ROM quite hard to train with the assisted chins unless specially attention is paid to it. Of course a combination of all methods will probably be the most productive, but that's what I focused on.

just my 2 cents,

Chris.

[Larry Roseman]

After re-reading parts of the BtGb the OAC suddenly became of interest to me. I tried it today using a machine that

counteracts some of your weight. In my case it was set to 125lbs, so I was only lifting50 pounds with the OAC.

That was enough, and I could only complete 5 reps each arm (and stopped after 3 sets).

II'm not sure I could do a full bodyweight negative without crashing or tearing something! Perhaps setting the

support level to 75 and going down with 100pounds is more realistic.

It's realy surprising that I can do a set of 12 regular pull ups at full bodyweight but only 5 OAC at less than half my bodyweight!

With a pullup the two sides pulling apart from each other seem to squeeze the center upwards. With one arm, there is nothing like that going on. It's all arm and shoulder to me ... quite a blast in any event!

Also tried doing FL pulls and front pulls for the first time. Finally understood the mechanics of them and they were

also a lot of fun. Didn't "pull them off" perfectly and only did a few sets of 3, but quite satisfied for the first time.

[Joshua Naterman]

Hi Alex,

the other method that hasn't been mentioned yet, and the one that got me my first dead hang OAC, is negatives...

Slow eccentrics also got me my muscle ups, a long time ago, and I don't think they should be underestimated.

Very slow (10s+) negatives and weighted negatives were very useful to me, especially the last portion where you completely straighten your arm and relax your scapular, i find this part of the ROM quite hard to train with the assisted chins unless specially attention is paid to it. Of course a combination of all methods will probably be the most productive, but that's what I focused on.

just my 2 cents,

Chris.

Very, very slow eccentrics are extremely good for nearly everything, especially in the learning stages. When you can go really, really ridiculously slowly you can typically go back up as well.

I also like how you focused on the end ROM, because that is absolutely where most people are lacking strength and development. Of course, this is also to some extent because most people never do true deadhang weighted (or unweighted) pull ups. It's quite hard to pull up from a straight arm hang.

[Nic Branson]

Always check and see where your weak spots are. For me in the one arm it is actually the top half. You need to know yours in order to address it.

[Chris Edgar]

Very, very slow eccentrics are extremely good for nearly everything, especially in the learning stages. When you can go really, really ridiculously slowly you can typically go back up as well.

I also like how you focused on the end ROM, because that is absolutely where most people are lacking strength and development. Of course, this is also to some extent because most people never do true deadhang weighted (or unweighted) pull ups. It's quite hard to pull up from a straight arm hang.

Absoutely, thank's Josh! Big fan From my experience, slow eccentrics are especially useful when multiple muscle groups are involved. I guess it's because weak links have nowhere to hide! You simply must perform it correctly. As an interesting sidenote, slow eccentric bowers seemed to work wonders for me, even back when I was far from performing the exercise. Definitely a great one for people struggling with HeSPUs...

The initial pull from a true deadhang in the OAC is ridiculously hard!

Chris

[Larry Roseman]

Then is it better to work on both up and down with 50 pounds equiv, or a negative only with more "weight" ?

Negatives worked for me when starting pull-ups, however I was able to do a few full pull-ups before starting

them at least.

[Joshua Naterman]

Then is it better to work on both up and down with 50 pounds equiv, or a negative only with more "weight" ?

Negatives worked for me when starting pull-ups, however I was able to do a few full pull-ups before starting

them at least.

Both. THe negatives help reduce GTO reflex by exposing the body to higher stresses (more weight) and the concentric + eccentric will help you build more tissue.

Nic: Me too. It's weird, but my issue has always been the top half. I personally think that is because I have always done all pull ups from a dead hang, even when I was doing high rep heavy weighted pull ups.

[Nic Branson]

Between true dead hang and weighted hanging shrugs the bottom comes much easier, agreed.

[Brian Li]

The initial pull from a true deadhang in the OAC is ridiculously hard!

I find the initial pull of an OAC where you start with your body facing the bar with supinated grip harder than an OAC from neutral grip and also harder than the OAP (pronated). I think it's because you have to actively supinate at the beginning to stop your body from spinning which makes it harder to pull initially. OAP is still harder overall though.

[Larry Roseman]

Then is it better to work on both up and down with 50 pounds equiv, or a negative only with more "weight" ?

Negatives worked for me when starting pull-ups, however I was able to do a few full pull-ups before starting

them at least.

Both. THe negatives help reduce GTO reflex by exposing the body to higher stresses (more weight) and the concentric + eccentric will help you build more tissue.

Nic: Me too. It's weird, but my issue has always been the top half. I personally think that is because I have always done all pull ups from a dead hang, even when I was doing high rep heavy weighted pull ups.

Great! Did the negatives equiv to about 70 pounds, which lasted between 10-14 seconds each. 3 * 3 sets each arm only initially.

Seemed enough. Looking forward to progress.

[Tavis G]

Guys, i have a different problem. The initial pull(shoulder shrug/ initial arm bend is easy for me. The part after that like 50-90 degrees is the hardest for me. Can anyone help. Yes i do slow negatives(10+ seconds) And weighted pullups. I have gotton from the point where i could barely hang from one arm to now. in 2 months. Aiming by January to get this.

[Brian Li]

Guys, i have a different problem. The initial pull(shoulder shrug/ initial arm bend is easy for me. The part after that like 50-90 degrees is the hardest for me. Can anyone help. Yes i do slow negatives(10+ seconds) And weighted pullups. I have gotton from the point where i could barely hang from one arm to now. in 2 months. Aiming by January to get this.

You got to keep working on it. Add some isometric holds at the said angles. They should help a lot.

[Joshua Naterman]

If you can start from the top, go down as far as you can while still being able to go back up and do this for reps. Each week you should notice that at least one rep is able to go down a tiny bit further. Eventually, over a matter of several and perhaps several MORE months, you will be able to do a proper OAC.

However, the simplest thing to do is climb rope.

[Coach Sommer]

However, the simplest thing to do is climb rope.

Excellent point. In my opinion if you haven't already mastered no legged rope climbs you have no business training OAC.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Larry Roseman]

Coach, you made the point in the book about OAC improving your pull-up capability. That's why I personally started it,

besides it being cool and addressing imbalances. That said, can one train rope climbing without a rope to climb?

[Coach Sommer]

Coach, you made the point in the book about OAC improving your pull-up capability. That's why I personally started it,

besides it being cool and addressing imbalances. That said, can one train rope climbing without a rope to climb?

When I wrote that years ago, that was certainly my perspective at the time when I was primarily working with gymnasts only. However with the intervening years of working with non-gymnasts around the world, I am now thoroughly convinced that rope climbing needs to be mastered prior to initiating OAC work.

It should also be pointed out that competitive gymnasts live on a steady diet of rope climbs. Which may have caused me to initially underestimate their importance. It may be a similar situtation to asking a fish if water feels "wet". The rope climbs are not something that we particularly notice, they are simply always there - day in and day out.

No, it is not possible to duplicate the benefits of rope climbing without a rope.

It is possible however to work on short ropes that are approx 8 feet or so long with excellent results if your particular workout situtation does not allow access to a longer rope. These shorter ropes can be hung on a wide variety of overhead bar and power racks etc for use in practically any workout setting.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Larry Roseman]

Interesting insight, thank you Coach. The last time I tried at a clubaround 8 months ago, I managed

3 hand over hand pulls without leg support, going up. Going down feet were needed. Never worked on

it further. If I'm unable to get a rope setup in the near future would you still suggest holding off even OAC prep

such as negatives with reduced body weight?

[Coach Sommer]

If I'm unable to get a rope setup in the near future would you still suggest holding off even OAC prep

such as negatives with reduced body weight?

Yes.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Tavis G]

Coach, could poles work instead of ropes? I have a pole at my park and it is easy wit. No legs. Or vines? I have a 30 foot vine on a tree and holds me. Would it be the same?

[Larry Roseman]

Will hold off then until I can do at least 8 feet up and down without legs from a sitting start.

Thanks for saving me from future hardships

Edit: Neccessity is the mother of invention. I borrowed a battling rope at the club and tied one end to a pull up bar. Was able to make it to the top with my legs under my body, not hugging the rope, from a kneeling position. However not so lucky with legs perpendicular. Is going up and down with legs under but not gripping satisfactory? Is more than one round trip required or advised? Thank you!

[Joshua Naterman]

Will hold off then until I can do at least 8 feet up and down without legs from a sitting start.

Thanks for saving me from future hardships

Edit: Neccessity is the mother of invention. I borrowed a battling rope at the club and tied one end to a pull up bar. Was able to make it to the top with my legs under my body, not hugging the rope, from a kneeling position. However not so lucky with legs perpendicular. Is going up and down with legs under but not gripping satisfactory? Is more than one round trip required or advised? Thank you!

If you are just starting out, you should probably stick with a single round trip for a while. Rope climbs can be a bit harder on the forearms than they initially appear

One thing that I think is really important to focus on is keeping the shoulder blade pressed against your rib cage. There are a ton of different ways to think about this, so whatever helps you figure it out is what you should go with. Example: A yoga teacher 2 days ago told us (my girlfriend and I, at a restorative yoga session) to visualize first retracting the shoulders most, but not all, of the way back and then keeping them around that area try to press them FORWARD through the rib cage. Not AROUND, but straight through. You're going to feel pressure at the part of the shoulder blade closest to your spine , pretty much along the whole length of that edge. The actual words she used were different are were meaningless to me but my girlfriend got it. Classic case of me overthinking things... what I just typed is what my girlfriend told me her impression was, and that worked very nicely for me.

This transformed the rope climb instantly from being somewhat uncomfortable in my right shoulder to literally not feeling like anything at all in the shoulder. Since I'm not particularly good at rope climbing these days I just repped out to failure with one hand on top, and switched it up for the next set. This allowed me to instantly correct a "strength" deficit in the right arm that was really just my body protecting me from messing up my shoulder. I have a feeling that at least a few people here have similar dysfunctions with rope climbs (and pulls/presses in general) that can be just as easily fixed.

This is fairly universal with upper body stuff but I want to point this out specifically with the rope climbs and OAC-related training because it helped me so much.

As a side note, it also gave me the ability to do slow inlocate on rings. I have eyewitnesses One is Daniel Burnham! We will shoot video next week just to so it's no BS. Surprised the heck out of me, I thought it would be at least 2 years from now from the way it felt on freemotion but clearly that is not the case. I just had to hang for about 10 seconds while I make my scaps stick to my ribs and then I pretty much went right on through!

I dont want to give the impression that that will all of as sudden make everyone superman, because it won't (it will just set you up to BECOME superman as you continue to train!). I have very strong internal rotators and as I have done some activation work to get them working closer to full output and now activation work for serratus anterior + learning how to use it, I was able to actually use what I already have to a much greater extent, which gave me slow inlocate as well as comfortable shoulders in rope climbs and planche leans.

I hope that some of you also experience an increase in ability from focusing a bit on this kind of thing.

[Larry Roseman]

Thanks for your input Josh. That's an interesting approach. I haven't really thought about shoulder positioning.

At this point I'm just finding enough strength to pull myself up. And to hold on for dear life

I'll try to keep an eye at it.

Wasn't clear when you talked about doing reps till failure. Are you practicing climbing in place at this time, doing pull ups on the rope so to say? Sounds interesting too.

I'm certainly getting eager to do something really well gymnastically. GB has done a lot for me strength and appearance wise. It probably is enough. Still the idea of being able to do some serious skills really well is appealing but as mentioned in the thread on

the upcoming system. However it's slow going. That's ok by me. The journey is the destination. There you have it.

On the plus side, personal trainers at the club I go to have complimented me on some of the things I'm doing lately.

So although they don't rank highly in the gymnsatic universe, they are near the top rung of what average joes

are doing in regular gyms.

The inlocates sound cool. I've only seen them done at high speed. Without a lot of momentum it will be quite a challenge.

Great you made that progress so quickly! Will consider doing extra shoulder work ... it's extremely important for tennis

too, which I'm sitting out of due to a relatively minor achilles injury.

Anyway, to bed, to sleep, perchance to dream!