One arm chinup to pullup

[pistol33]

Anybody having trouble transfering from the one arm chin up to the one arm pullup

My one armed pullup is pretty strong, i can do a set of 3 each hand, with minor swing, but on the chinup i get stuck midway unless i use a massive swing, but that doesn't count or doesn't seem to be helpful practicing

any advice

[Timy7]

For me its the other way around. I did 5 sets of 2 reps one arm chins from deadhang yesterday and felt great. A new PR, today I tried one arm pull ups(palm facing away from me) and was only able to do one each arm barely...... I know why its that way for me, with palm facing you your bicep comes into play quite a bit more then with a pull up. "shrugs" idk what to tell ya man.

Start working negatives to get past your sticking point.

Timy

[Kamali Downey]

It's because they are two different exercieses.

You can't expect to have the same strength levels in both exercises without training both andgettingthe mboth stronger.

Traditionally, pullups (palsm away) are harder and chins (palms facing) are easier because you have the help of the bicep.

[pistol33]

ive actually made some progress, i can still do 3 pulls, but now ive gotten 1 one arm chin, with each with a fair swing.

i actually used the cable cross machine to help me

thanks for the posts

[Ortprod]

It's because they are two different exercieses.

You can't expect to have the same strength levels in both exercises without training both andgettingthe mboth stronger.

Traditionally, pullups (palsm away) are harder and chins (palms facing) are easier because you have the help of the bicep.

IMHO, not always true. One example, Jim Bathurst had great carry over into the OAPull and, from what I know, he primarily concentrated on the OAC. The shoulder rotation is the limiting factor obviously, so you have to find the part of your shoulder that is not transferring the tension and "plug" it up.

[Gregor]

You have help of biceps with palms facing out or in....I myself am stronger with palms facing out...

[StevenL]

Actually the reason palms facing in is easier is because the big lat muscles can help more. In the palms away version, the smaller teres major muscles are the prime movers. However, I'm sure it would be possible to be stronger palms away if you did tons of weighted pullups and never did any chin ups, or did a lot more work one way or the other.

[matthew.percussion]

StevenL, I have this problem. Over the summer I worked at a summer camp as a life guard. We had some weights that were used for scuba diving and me and the other lifeguards would do pull-ups, never chin-ups, on the I Beam with the weights strapped on. My Chin-Ups are slowly getting better.

[Dillon Castro]

I've always read the best way to train for one arm chins is to become more proficient in weighted chins.

[griffdrc]

stevenL i'm confused by your last comment... look at the insertions for the teres ma. and the lat... it does not affect supination or pronantion (palm in or away)... the muscles do not affect flexing the elbow joint... they insert on the anterior portion of the humerus (upper arm bone)... however the rotation does affect the biceps brachii and the amount of contraction... there is a graph for force vs muscle length... each muscle has an optimal length at which its strongest... the rotation could affect the optimal length of the biceps brachii and the force it can generate... that is why i think palm in tends to be easier...

as far as why palms away would be easier... it could be neural (you train them more and thus are better at them) or the brachioradialis could be more developed and assist the movement more...

and as far as i know the lat and teres ma. have the same function... the teres ma. is often called the "mini lat"

just my two cents... i'ld love to hear how the lat helps more palm in...

[George Launchbury]

they insert on the anterior portion of the humerus (upper arm bone)

...they have different origins and would be stronger in different planes and ROM. The position/plane of the humerus is generally relative to the hand width, where the grip is generally chosen for comfort. For most it is uncomfortable to perform wide-grip chins or close-grip pullups. With wide-grip pullups the elbows tend to come down to the sides, whereas with close-grip chin-ups the elbows pull down directly in front of the body.

I also believe that the lats don't perform any significant work when the humerus passes behind the torso (while pulling), and with chin-ups (certainly close-grip) the ROM is such that they don't really travel that far.

George.

[griffdrc]

i understand that they have different origins... otherwise they would kinda be the same muscle... but i still can't see the difference... first the lat is MUCH larger and a much larger contributor to pulling... second the lat and the teres ma. help perform the same movements... i realize that wide grip vs close grip pulls involve the elbow following a different path... this could affect the lat... but then it should also effect the teres major... i'ld love to see the physics behind why one would be affected differently than the other... i'm not saying that one postion doesn't put you at a mechanical disadvantage compared to the other... i think wide grip is much harder than close grip...

shoulder extension vs adduction... they are performed by essentaly the same primary muscles...

[George Launchbury]

The Latissimus Dorsi originates almost entirely from the torso (and a small point on the scapula), whereas the Teres Major originates almost entirely from the scapula. Generally speaking the Teres Major pulls the arm to the scapula, and the Latissimus Dorsi pulls the arm to the torso. Maybe that has some bearing?

EDIT: Maybe it depends on the part of the pull that the scapula moves - It might be a smooth movement throughout, the arm might start ahead of the scapula, or the scapula may start ahead of the arm? Maybe there are significant differences in the movement of the scapula between close grip (extension) and wide grip (adduction) in terms of ROM, rotation, elevation/depression etc.

The trouble is that so many resources simply state the muscles active in a specific movement, and not to what degree - either in relation to their own potential output, or in terms or their contribution to said movement. They also tend to work around only the joint in question, and not necessarily the muscles that are also involved in a compund movement (in this case, biceps brachii/brachioradialis etc).

The physics behind such a complex joint as the shoulder girdle would be very complicated indeed!

I think it varies from person to person as to which they find easier, which is likely a combination of mechanics, innervation and prior training. I personally find a neutral grip at shoulder width the easiest!

Regards,

George.

[braindx]

Pullups and chinups have the SAME lat and teres major activation ****IF**** you are going elbows in. Humerus alignment is exactly the same and the difference is only at the pronation and supination of the forearm.

If you're doing your pullups with elbows wide much like you would do wide grip pullups then there's obviously going to be some difference. I think this is where most of the "debate" comes in. With pullups you can go wide elbows or narrow elbows. But with chins you can pretty much only go narrow elbows. So it DEPENDS on which one you are doing.

As far as why pullups and chinups with elbows in may be different it's mostly just practice (neural activation) although the brachioradialis as griff said is used a bit more in the pullups as opposed to the biceps with chins. Mostly because of insertion of the biceps tendon onto the radius (lengthens the biceps muscle making it "weaker" as muscle strength is optimal in the middle of it's ROM).