Planche help

[ilyan93]

I recently read BtGB and I wanted to integrate some planche training with my weightlifting program. The goal is to be able to do full planche pushups some day. Weightlifting will still be priority number 1.

Yesterday I tried some basic frogstands and I got less than five seconds on all my attempts. Also tried some planche leans and PPP.

Basically I would like to get your advice on what do you think is the best way to learn the planche. Would it be ok to practice this skill on off days? I'm following an upper lower 4 day x week split. Also should I follow BTGB progressions or just work with planche leans? I really suck at basic frogstand.

Some other info: I'm 6,2 and around 85kg (around 190 pounds) with long arms and torso.

[Matth Challoner]

Hey,

You should start by incorporating the planche progressions in to your routine, in this case the frogstand. Try a planche SSC,

[ilyan93]

Hey,

You should start by incorporating the planche progressions in to your routine, in this case the frogstand. Try a planche SSC,

Do you think it would be OK to do GTG on off days with the frogstand?

I have another question regarding technique. I know that in the frogstand the body should be in hollow position, but should the shoulders be externally or internally rotated?

[Joshua Naterman]

Your biggest obstacles will be learning hollow body strength, because weightlifting is nearly all arch body strength and to some extent relies on different muscles.

To correct this probable deficiency, starting with hollow holds and push ups in a hollow position (once you've learned hollow hold and hollow plank) is a good way to go. Serves as a good warm up and will help you adapt your current strength to that needed for planche.

Scapular push ups AKA push ups with a plus, done in hollow plank, are also a great exercise to strengthen serratus anterior, which is usually not strong enough in most lifters.

Finally, external rotator work of your choice. Open packed position, unsupported work will carry over the most but whatever you do will work as long as you actually feel it in the external rotators.

As for specific form, you want to keep a reasonably neutral position. with inner elbow pointing somewhere between 45 degrees and 90 degrees (straight forward). Do what feels good. Holding a hollow body and letting your body do the rest according to Dillon Zrike's planche thread is what you need to focus on.

Frog is good for learning balance, and you should do them, but planche leans are the most important for learning planche. Don't leave them out.

[Aaron Griffin]

Finally, external rotator work of your choice. Open packed position, unsupported work will carry over the most but whatever you do will work as long as you actually feel it in the external rotators.

Could you list a few options for ER work? I've been incorporating cuban presses recently, and like them, but wonder if there's some more variety

[ilyan93]

Your biggest obstacles will be learning hollow body strength, because weightlifting is nearly all arch body strength and to some extent relies on different muscles.

To correct this probable deficiency, starting with hollow holds and push ups in a hollow position (once you've learned hollow hold and hollow plank) is a good way to go. Serves as a good warm up and will help you adapt your current strength to that needed for planche.

Scapular push ups AKA push ups with a plus, done in hollow plank, are also a great exercise to strengthen serratus anterior, which is usually not strong enough in most lifters.

Finally, external rotator work of your choice. Open packed position, unsupported work will carry over the most but whatever you do will work as long as you actually feel it in the external rotators.

As for specific form, you want to keep a reasonably neutral position. with inner elbow pointing somewhere between 45 degrees and 90 degrees (straight forward). Do what feels good. Holding a hollow body and letting your body do the rest according to Dillon Zrike's planche thread is what you need to focus on.

Frog is good for learning balance, and you should do them, but planche leans are the most important for learning planche. Don't leave them out.

Thank you for your help.

O

ne of the pressing assistances of my routine is dips (done with an arched back, going until shoulders are barely past elbows). Do you think doing them in a hollow position is worth it for learning the planche?

I also do hanging leg raises and ab wheel rollouts. Do you think that these (done hollow) are ok for developing hollow body strenght?

One last question: do you have any experience on the GTG method for planche? Do you think it could work? And should I do it for planche leans or frogstands (maybe for both on separate days?).

[Joshua Naterman]

Thank you for your help.

One of the pressing assistances of my routine is dips (done with an arched back, going until shoulders are barely past elbows). Do you think doing them in a hollow position is worth it for learning the planche?

Absolutely. Don't do a bunch of volume at first, you will be surprised at how much stress is on your sternum. Ease into this slowly.

I also do hanging leg raises and ab wheel rollouts. Do you think that these (done hollow) are ok for developing hollow body strenght?

Absolutely, but be careful to stay completely hollow. Roll outs are very hard to do this with, but if you watch Ross Enaimat he does just fine. It can certainly be done.

One last question: do you have any experience on the GTG method for planche? Do you think it could work? And should I do it for planche leans or frogstands (maybe for both on separate days?).

GTG is probably not a great idea for straight arm work, particularly for beginners. Once you have a solid 30+s hold (say tuck PL) then doing 5-10s randomly throughout the day probably won't injure you, but I wouldn't do this with anything that isn't clearly in the zone for strength-endurance and I also wouldn't entertain the idea of GTG with planche work for at least the first 6 months of consistent planche training.

I have tried many, many things and I find that with straight arm work the best results come from using bent arm work (PPP, XR PPP, etc) to build the muscles and the static holds 3-4x per week to learn how to use those muscles.

[ilyan93]

Thank you for your help.

One of the pressing assistances of my routine is dips (done with an arched back, going until shoulders are barely past elbows). Do you think doing them in a hollow position is worth it for learning the planche?

Absolutely. Don't do a bunch of volume at first, you will be surprised at how much stress is on your sternum. Ease into this slowly.

I also do hanging leg raises and ab wheel rollouts. Do you think that these (done hollow) are ok for developing hollow body strenght?

Absolutely, but be careful to stay completely hollow. Roll outs are very hard to do this with, but if you watch Ross Enaimat he does just fine. It can certainly be done.

One last question: do you have any experience on the GTG method for planche? Do you think it could work? And should I do it for planche leans or frogstands (maybe for both on separate days?).

GTG is probably not a great idea for straight arm work, particularly for beginners. Once you have a solid 30+s hold (say tuck PL) then doing 5-10s randomly throughout the day probably won't injure you, but I wouldn't do this with anything that isn't clearly in the zone for strength-endurance and I also wouldn't entertain the idea of GTG with planche work for at least the first 6 months of consistent planche training.

I have tried many, many things and I find that with straight arm work the best results come from using bent arm work (PPP, XR PPP, etc) to build the muscles and the static holds 3-4x per week to learn how to use those muscles.

Then I would like to do some light planche work on the days I'm not weightlifting (2 or 3 times a week, whatever is more convenient).

Would you recommend something like PPP and planche leans one one day and frogstand on the other? How would you structure it? I have a lot of trouble balancing in the frogstand, I can hold it for a very little time (most I've got is 5 sec).

[Blairbob]

Sure, but it sounds like you are fighting mostly the balance portion of the frogstand more than anything else. If anything the frogstand will start to build your wrists to get ready for tuck planche and beyond.

If you are truly limited by balance for the frogstand, I would treat it as skill work akin to HS work and work some form of assisted tuck planche which is very similar to PL lean all in all. An assist that could be used is a tiptoe spot on a chair, small box or swiss ball.

[Joshua Naterman]

I would probably do frog stand and planche lean on the same day, and PPP on other days, but you should play with the combinations and do what you feel best with. Frog + PPP on one day and planche lean on another is also a good combo, and PPP+PL lean on one day and frog on the other is fine as well. Your time table will work just fine. You can absolutely GTG frog stand if you want.

Frog is definitely good for balance. It doesn't carry over all that directly, but it will help make sure your wrists are ready for tuck PL.

[Blairbob]

I noticed last year when getting back into the gym that frogstand was taxing on my wrists a bit. It wasn't the balance that was tiring in my shoulders and triceps, it was the pressure on my wrists. So frogstands and HS work were called for.

[ilyan93]

Thanks to everybody for your help I think that at the moment I'm going to master some easier movements, at the moment the l-sit and maybe some levers or handstands, and then start working towards the planche using your advice.