Is this overtraining?

[Warrior'sSuite]

I was thinking of focusing on weighted dips, HeSPU's, biceps ring curls, weighted chins,pulls, and FL rows and pulls although these last 2 ill do them less than the others.

Ill do 4 exercises each workout and maybe a fifth to do the FL rows/pulls but i wanted to focus more on the first 4. And until i get proper weights/a squat rack, that for legs. In the meantime im doing sprints for legs.

4-5 sets each exercise, 4 times a week, done with supersets pairing only 2 exercises at a time. I would do the first 4 on every workout except for the FL rows/pulls, im still thinking how to do those. The way ive programmed it it would take 40-50 min at most depending if i do 4 or 5 sets.

So would this be overtraining? I dont go to failure on each set, i stop 1-2 reps before.

I read Power to the People and Pavel says you could do the same workout 5 times a week, although obviously his is only 2 exercises and 2 sets for each. I would never do 5 days with the one im thinking about. He says that it's a myth that muscles take 24-96 hours to recover until you can train them again, or that they do unless your workout is not well designed. Well what would it take for your workout to cut into this recovery then?

I guess i could also do it 3 days a week or every other day to have more recovery and never do it 2 days in a row but i just want to know if 4 days a week would be better than 3 or whatever else.

[Colibri]

Now I am not advanced, nor can I call myself a gymnast. I do however have a very keen interest in bodyweight fitness. I don't practise what I preach always but here's my 2 cents:

Elite gymnasts, olifters, swimmers, etc. all train for multiple hours a day, and even twice a day on occasion. Ido Portal (google him if you don't know who he is) is a big advocate of a high work capacity and working twice or three times a day. His students all follow his protocols and they all succeed.

I have been using twice and three times a day training and have been training for 8-10 hours at times, and I have to juggle many things I train for, s&c is only a tiny part of the picture. People have shouted 'overtraining' at me and my students for years. These same people are weak and out of the game right now.

Ido.

Rest appropriately, eat enough and train smart and you won't overtrain

See how that goes. If it's to much, adjust it and adapt

[Rik de Kort]

So would this be overtraining? I dont go to failure on each set, i stop 1-2 reps before.

You have asked this before, haven't you? Well, the answer is, that depends. Overtraining is not a property of your workout or routine. Overtraining is a state your body can be in, it's a property of your body. It is characterized by loss of appetite, loss of sleep, no progress in your workouts. You don't just get overtrained like that. It's hard work.

Give the program a shot. If you don't have energy for workouts, have less appetite and aren't progressing, try backing off.

[FREDERIC DUPONT]

(...) You don't just get overtrained like that. It's hard work. (...)

Overtraining is hard work!

That would make a great tee shirt.

[Warrior'sSuite]

Now I am not advanced, nor can I call myself a gymnast. I do however have a very keen interest in bodyweight fitness. I don't practise what I preach always but here's my 2 cents:

Elite gymnasts, olifters, swimmers, etc. all train for multiple hours a day, and even twice a day on occasion. Ido Portal (google him if you don't know who he is) is a big advocate of a high work capacity and working twice or three times a day. His students all follow his protocols and they all succeed.

I have been using twice and three times a day training and have been training for 8-10 hours at times, and I have to juggle many things I train for, s&c is only a tiny part of the picture. People have shouted 'overtraining' at me and my students for years. These same people are weak and out of the game right now.

Ido.

Rest appropriately, eat enough and train smart and you won't overtrain

See how that goes. If it's to much, adjust it and adapt

I suppose how much work is done and how intense the workouts are probably has a lot to do too. And also what all these people who train hours on end eat and do to recover. Maybe they have perfect nutrition/recovery methods which i dont . Well athletes you can be sure of this since they have nutritionists caring for them and such. But ill give it a try anyways.

You have asked this before, haven't you? Well, the answer is, that depends. Overtraining is not a property of your workout or routine. Overtraining is a state your body can be in, it's a property of your body. It is characterized by loss of appetite, loss of sleep, no progress in your workouts. You don't just get overtrained like that. It's hard work.

Give the program a shot. If you don't have energy for workouts, have less appetite and aren't progressing, try backing off.

From what ive read they make it seem like overtraining is the easiest thing to do in the world, seriously. "More is less" "Less is more", "It takes at least 5 days for a muscle to fully recover before being trained again", etc. etc. It just pisses me off the amount of contradicting information you can find. One place says this, another says that, one swears by this, another condemns it, and so on.

My biggest concern with this was that i could be screwing any size gains since you can get stronger without getting bigger and they say the main thing to gain size is rest, so im afraid that by doing 4 days i wont get any size. This really was my main question, i shouldve put it in the beginning.

[Gerald Mangona]

From what ive read they make it seem like overtraining is the easiest thing to do in the world, seriously. "More is less" "Less is more", "It takes at least 5 days for a muscle to fully recover before being trained again", etc. etc. It just pisses me off the amount of contradicting information you can find. One place says this, another says that, one swears by this, another condemns it, and so on.

This is why in the end, much of what you'll need to do is trial, error, repeat, improve. I was chronically getting overuse injuries to the point of total frustration. That came to an end when I dropped down to working every 4th day (Day 1, Day 4, Day 7, Day 10, etc.) I've been working out almost 12 months injury free, and yes, I've seen both improvements in strength and size. After this SSC I'll probably see about increasing volume to 4 days/wk. We'll see.

But if there's anything I swear by, it's about starting slow and working up gradually. For a true beginner, I would not object to seeing a 3-month ramp up to work from 1 set per exercise up to 3 sets per exercise.

My biggest concern with this was that i could be screwing any size gains since you can get stronger without getting bigger and they say the main thing to gain size is rest, so im afraid that by doing 4 days i wont get any size. This really was my main question, i shouldve put it in the beginning.

You won't be screwing anything. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Find a pace that you can stay injury-free, gradually increase volume and intensity. Try something for 4-6 months before trying to adjust it. If after 6-months you've gained strength but not size, then you can adjust as necessary...this time with 6 months of data to work with.

Sign up to do this as a lifestyle. Look at this as a long-term commitment. How much better will you feel and look 3 years from now? 5 years? 10 years? If you follow a lifestyle of physical activity, conditioning, strength work, you'll look better, perform better, and be healthier. You will get bigger and stronger if you stick with it. Work in 4-6 month chunks and adjust from there. Either way, you'll be making progress...forget about trying to maximize one type of progress or being 100% efficient. It's impossible, there's too much contradictory information, and you don't have data about the most important thing...yourself.

If you're going into it thinking that 12-months is a long time, then you'll constantly be frustrated and second-guessing yourself.

[Larry Roseman]

But if there's anything I swear by, it's about starting slow and working up gradually. For a true beginner, I would not object to seeing a 3-month ramp up to work from 1 set per exercise up to 3 sets per exercise.

You won't be screwing anything. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Find a pace that you can stay injury-free, gradually increase volume and intensity. Try something for 4-6 months before trying to adjust it. If after 6-months you've gained strength but not size, then you can adjust as necessary...this time with 6 months of data to work with.

Sign up to do this as a lifestyle. Look at this as a long-term commitment. How much better will you feel and look 3 years from now? 5 years? 10 years? If you follow a lifestyle of physical activity, conditioning, strength work, you'll look better, perform better, and be healthier. You will get bigger and stronger if you stick with it. Work in 4-6 month chunks and adjust from there. Either way, you'll be making progress...forget about trying to maximize one type of progress or being 100% efficient. It's impossible, there's too much contradictory information, and you don't have data about the most important thing...yourself.

If you're going into it thinking that 12-months is a long time, then you'll constantly be frustrated and second-guessing yourself.

This ---^ 100%.

I don't have time to analyse your plan, however include some easy and a completely off week in the 4-6 month block.

Include a few rest/recovery days per week.

I don't agree that working out with any intensity 3 times a day or 8 hours a day is a good idea for strength programmes.

[Warrior'sSuite]

This is why in the end, much of what you'll need to do is trial, error, repeat, improve. I was chronically getting overuse injuries to the point of total frustration. That came to an end when I dropped down to working every 4th day (Day 1, Day 4, Day 7, Day 10, etc.) I've been working out almost 12 months injury free, and yes, I've seen both improvements in strength and size. After this SSC I'll probably see about increasing volume to 4 days/wk. We'll see.

But if there's anything I swear by, it's about starting slow and working up gradually. For a true beginner, I would not object to seeing a 3-month ramp up to work from 1 set per exercise up to 3 sets per exercise.

You won't be screwing anything. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Find a pace that you can stay injury-free, gradually increase volume and intensity. Try something for 4-6 months before trying to adjust it. If after 6-months you've gained strength but not size, then you can adjust as necessary...this time with 6 months of data to work with.

Sign up to do this as a lifestyle. Look at this as a long-term commitment. How much better will you feel and look 3 years from now? 5 years? 10 years? If you follow a lifestyle of physical activity, conditioning, strength work, you'll look better, perform better, and be healthier. You will get bigger and stronger if you stick with it. Work in 4-6 month chunks and adjust from there. Either way, you'll be making progress...forget about trying to maximize one type of progress or being 100% efficient. It's impossible, there's too much contradictory information, and you don't have data about the most important thing...yourself.

If you're going into it thinking that 12-months is a long time, then you'll constantly be frustrated and second-guessing yourself.

Im not a beginner in the sense that im not starting to exercise, ive been exercising for years but never with a specific goal/program until recently but even then i havent stuck with anything for 2 months at least. I already know this is all long-term and basically for life, i just asked if you would get better size gains training every other day or 3 times a week instead of 4 times a week.

But ill give it a try anyways. This time i have a notebook where i write down everything.

[Gerald Mangona]

i just asked if you would get better size gains training every other day or 3 times a week instead of 4 times a week.

The answer is I don't know. And I don't think anyone else does, though I defer to someone with more expertise.

But ill give it a try anyways. This time i have a notebook where i write down everything.

That's the one thing you've propose that will definitely get you better size gains. Maybe not for the first 8 weeks. But definitely over the next 2 years. Also, write down what you eat, too.

[Rik de Kort]

Dude. Just get going. You can fine tune everything as you go along: you never know how you're going to feel if you don't actually do it. You can craft the most beautiful routine in the history of mankind, but it's not any use until you learn if it actually works in practice.

Give the 3-days a week routine a go for like 12 weeks. Then go with 4-days a week. Compare. See what you like, see what you don't. Stop worrying about the insignificant details. You can figure that out later on.

[Warrior'sSuite]

And indeed I will get going. I'll document everything and try to see it through to the end.