Deadlifts vs Reverse Leg Lifts (and variations)

[anhkun]

Both these exercise target the erector spinae muscles, with the deadlift having a long list or synergist and stabilisers compared to RLL. Anyway what I've also noticed when performing these exercises is that when doing the deadlift i feel most of spinae erector muscles activating mainly in the lumbar and lower thoracic regions. Whereas when doing reverse leg lifts and variations there is activation in the lumbar, lower thoracic AS WELL as mid thoracic region. Thoughts?

[Vagabond]

Simple: they're different movements and both should be practiced. The deadlift is a bigger movement, meaning it uses more total muscle mass and is considered to be a "main one". The reverse hyperextensions are also a very good movement that should be used mostly as an assistance exercise if you're using more of a weightlifting terminology. Read Louie Simmon's (Westside Barbell) texts, you'll see how he incorporate the reverse hypers in a powerlifting program.

[Joshua Naterman]

There is also a considerable difference in which part of the spine is connected to the support structure. With RLL, your anchor point is at your chest because that's where the pressure from your arms is keeping you stuck to the bench. That means that force travels all the way down the spine and you have your entire body's weight at the worst possible leverage hanging of of the thoracic spine.

With heavy deadlifts, I used to feel it all the way up to the top of my shoulderblades when I was near max, but not so much during work sets. When I went to failure I would, but that wasn't until I was doing 8-10 reps with 465 and more. If you aren't feeling that with deadlifts, you probably haven't developed enough strength to lift heavy enough loads to challenge the upper spinal musculature. There is a lot of support for it, and the the weight is pulling the t-spine INTO its natural shape. The RLL pulls it OUT of its natural shape, and there is no axial support. I never did enough RLL to really pay attention to this, but I used to do a lot of upper back good mornings with a 100-120 lb dumbbell held to my chest and that immediately made my upper spinal erectors work super hard. Never felt that with deadlifts, ever. Closest thing would be a front squat, and I did those specifically to increase the weight my spine could hold during front squats. That is nearly always the limiting factor for me.

[anhkun]

There is also a considerable difference in which part of the spine is connected to the support structure. With RLL, your anchor point is at your chest because that's where the pressure from your arms is keeping you stuck to the bench. That means that force travels all the way down the spine and you have your entire body's weight at the worst possible leverage hanging of of the thoracic spine.

With heavy deadlifts, I used to feel it all the way up to the top of my shoulderblades when I was near max, but not so much during work sets. When I went to failure I would, but that wasn't until I was doing 8-10 reps with 465 and more. If you aren't feeling that with deadlifts, you probably haven't developed enough strength to lift heavy enough loads to challenge the upper spinal musculature. There is a lot of support for it, and the the weight is pulling the t-spine INTO its natural shape. The RLL pulls it OUT of its natural shape, and there is no axial support. I never did enough RLL to really pay attention to this, but I used to do a lot of upper back good mornings with a 100-120 lb dumbbell held to my chest and that immediately made my upper spinal erectors work super hard. Never felt that with deadlifts, ever. Closest thing would be a front squat, and I did those specifically to increase the weight my spine could hold during front squats. That is nearly always the limiting factor for me.

Very insightful as per usual from slizz. Also would u say exercises like the Headstand RLL variation pulling the spine OUT of its natural shape can have negative effects in the long term?

[Joshua Naterman]

There is also a considerable difference in which part of the spine is connected to the support structure. With RLL, your anchor point is at your chest because that's where the pressure from your arms is keeping you stuck to the bench. That means that force travels all the way down the spine and you have your entire body's weight at the worst possible leverage hanging of of the thoracic spine.

With heavy deadlifts, I used to feel it all the way up to the top of my shoulderblades when I was near max, but not so much during work sets. When I went to failure I would, but that wasn't until I was doing 8-10 reps with 465 and more. If you aren't feeling that with deadlifts, you probably haven't developed enough strength to lift heavy enough loads to challenge the upper spinal musculature. There is a lot of support for it, and the the weight is pulling the t-spine INTO its natural shape. The RLL pulls it OUT of its natural shape, and there is no axial support. I never did enough RLL to really pay attention to this, but I used to do a lot of upper back good mornings with a 100-120 lb dumbbell held to my chest and that immediately made my upper spinal erectors work super hard. Never felt that with deadlifts, ever. Closest thing would be a front squat, and I did those specifically to increase the weight my spine could hold during front squats. That is nearly always the limiting factor for me.

Very insightful as per usual from slizz. Also would u say exercises like the Headstand RLL variation pulling the spine OUT of its natural shape can have negative effects in the long term?

No, the spine is made to be able to move all over the place. You could get negative effects from staying all curled up or all arched for extremely long periods of time (like 30+ minutes with no break at the end of anatomical ROM, which you can't do unless you are tied to a torture device), which is what you see with all the computer people. Which, sadly, is a number of us

The exercises help strengthen the spinal musculature and pose no health risks. If anything, they are a fairly powerful preventative thing to do.

If there was one exercise to focus on for prevention, it would be curl ups (as named in BtGB) for time, with a minimum of 60s with no rest and no release of tension, just slow and smooth continuous motion.