Lower belly fat.

[Andrew Long]

I have to say running has been the best way for me to loose weight in the past I have done the weight training and watching my calories all that stuff but what really took off the pounds easily and quickly was running. When i am training running I always lose weight more easily and faster in general and if you combine that with training for muscle gain well you are going to look pretty sexy very soon . unfortunately I can't run much still due to the ankle damage from a bad climbing fall. the thing i like most about running is once you get past the first stages of training where its just exhausting every time you run then i start to get into the stage where running makes me feel really good and it helps clear my mind making me feel less stressed. took me some weeks before i started feeling like that when I started running.

[Tavis G]

I didn't even realize anyone commented on my post! I think one major reason why i can't lose this lower fat. Is because of one of my favorite foods: pop tarts. I think I'm addicted to them and 200 cal per pop tart. i think that is no.1 reason. And i don't really do any cardio for any reason. You guyd recommend HIIT right? And for my abs i had just started hanging leg raises all the way to the bar and down, jungle gym xt bodysaws, renegade rows but i need heavier DB. And which would ypu guys recommend a Body Lever or an ab wheel?

[Andrew Long]

you could trying do some long distance running a few times a week that really helped me anyway. as for the body lever or ab wheel why not both? I prefer body lever long as you dont have an arch in your back and are using correct form.

[Philip Chubb]

Long distance running is one of the reasons people have these fat problems. Start with fixing your diet and lifting, then add intervals if needed.

[Tavis G]

I hate long distance running, it hurts my knees I'm going to stick with crazy hard intervals.

[Alessandro Mainente]

best way to lose superficial fat is increase the basal metabolism, you can do that increasing the muscles mass then adjusting your diet. i've never did cardio since i've started to do GB training. i work only on my diet.

as you can know the fact that you can see 8 pack or 6 pack is a genetic matter. in despite of the low bodyfat i have , i can see venis in my lower abs, serratus anterior, intercostal abs, oblique abs, but i have 4 pack not 6 or 8!

[Joshua Naterman]

 

 

Long distance running is one of the reasons people have these fat problems. Start with fixing your diet and lifting, then add intervals if needed.

 

Utter nonsense.

 

The reason people have these fat problems is that they don't eat properly, and don't match energy intake to energy expenditure in real time.

 

If you don't replace the carbs you burn after a long run, or a short run, or a workout, or whatever else, then you end up with more cortisol than you should have circulating. 

 

I'm pretty sure people are familiar enough with how cortisol works (preferentially causes abdominal fat storage, amongst many other things) to understand why you do not want this to be a long-term elevated hormone.

 

It doesn't matter whether cortisol remains elevated because you aren't eating right, or are stressed, or have done too much work (anaerobic OR aerobic) for the amount of food and macronitruent breakdown you eat, the result will be the same. Belly fat.

[Tavis G]

Does fructise in fruits cause fat? i heard this on the internet. Is a glass of whole good after after a workout? Keeping my cals low. cut pop tarts out and replacing with an apple in the morning.

[Stefan Hinote]

Sorry the formatting is acting up.

 

Excess fructose can certainly be stored as fat in adipose tissue, but that doesn't mean eating an apple is going to be stored as fat, or cause you to get fat either.

 

Another thing that should be noted is that insulin blunts fat oxidation, and that's on an exponential scale, so it doesn't take much of an insulin response to stop the usage of body fat for energy.

 

Don't read that as an advocation of eliminating carbs--as that's not my intention either.

[Philip Chubb]

From what I am seeing with Biosignature, I have to disagree with that Joshua.

[Stefan Hinote]

From what I am seeing with Biosignature, I have to disagree with that Joshua.

 

 

Can you expand on why you think long distance running negatively effects fat-loss?

[Joshua Naterman]

From what I am seeing with Biosignature, I have to disagree with that Joshua.

Variables to look for from my perspective:

 

1) Are they consuming water + carbohydrates + salt regularly throughout the run?

 

2) If they burn 700 kcal in a run, are they actually A) consuming most of the carb debt afterwards along with 30g protein, as an initial 60-80g dose of carbs + 30g protein + 32 oz of water (either mixed together or separate but concurrently) and smaller 0-40g carb portions every 30-60 minutes afterwards until carb debt is repaid?

 

3) Are they consuming large amounts of fast carbohydrate during rest times? Most people simply aren't training anywhere near long or intensely enough to be doing so. Elite level half and full marathoners benefit from this, but others will typically not.

 

4) Are they maintaining energy balance or a slight deficit with good food choices during non-exercise time?

 

5) Are they consuming protein in a manner that supports preferential lean mass retention during weight loss periods?

 

6) Do you know what I mean by a carb debt

 

Aside from that list:

 

Are you actually modifying how they eat and adding supplements while they keep running the same way, or are you removing the running? It sounds to me like you are removing their running, because your post makes it sound like you are firmly against long runs. 

 

If you're removing the running, then you have absolutely no idea whether what I am saying actually makes a difference or not. You can't go by what they tell you, you already know that. You have to be their nutrition daddy and tell them what to do, and make sure they do it exactly as specified. That's the only way you can have a valid opinion regarding what I am saying about the dietary issues that keep runners fatter than they should be.

 

You also have to remember that people tend to run to lose weight, and in their minds eating less + running more = better results. The semi-opposite is true: eating enough in real time + eating decent foods + running more will actually produce good results, and if you add in intelligent lifting for the whole body then you get absolutely ridiculously awesome results.

[Philip Chubb]

The hormonal results from distance running have shown in all of the runners I have had come in. The same story. High cortisol, low testosterone, and low muscle mass. I remove their running and change nothing else and the cortisol goes down.

I am not against running, but long distance aerobics in general. I believe it is a subpar tool and detremental to most people. We are trying to push adaptation toward a strength and power side not the long distance endurance one. The fact that after all the results I have had still having yet to see a lean distance runner without that skinny fat syndrome just shows me it's a subpar tool. Perhaps if you do it the way Joshua is suggesting then maybe it would be more useful, however, most of the people I am dealing with lack the insulin sensitivity to be having carbs after workouts. I tend to allow those when they are lean.

The proof has been in the pudding with my practice. We use intelligent lifting with intelligent intervals and get much better results. Oh and we can still run long distances without even training for them.

[Nic Branson]

One question. What intensity was their long distance running. I am willing to bet it was on average over 80-85%. Now that much intensity for that duration all the time should obviously show to be detrimental. Now find disciplined runners who spent the bulk of their training at long distance under that and the results should be different.

The tool itself is not inherently flawed, the usage of it is. Personally I dislike long distance running greatly for most people, but I cannot completely demonize it away from people who enjoy it. Is it the best tool, well that is relative. If they enjoy it then some thought should be given to help the person do an activity they enjoy. It is their lifestyle not ours...

[Joshua Naterman]

The hormonal results from distance running have shown in all of the runners I have had come in. The same story. High cortisol, low testosterone, and low muscle mass. I remove their running and change nothing else and the cortisol goes down.

I am not against running, but long distance aerobics in general. I believe it is a subpar tool and detremental to most people. We are trying to push adaptation toward a strength and power side not the long distance endurance one. The fact that after all the results I have had still having yet to see a lean distance runner without that skinny fat syndrome just shows me it's a subpar tool. Perhaps if you do it the way Joshua is suggesting then maybe it would be more useful, however, most of the people I am dealing with lack the insulin sensitivity to be having carbs after workouts. I tend to allow those when they are lean.

The proof has been in the pudding with my practice. We use intelligent lifting with intelligent intervals and get much better results. Oh and we can still run long distances without even training for them.

 

I see the problem. I don't think you realize that what you are doing is correcting the energy balance problem by getting rid of the running instead of correcting the energy balance problem by adding appropriate nutrition for the additional expenditure.

 

Immediately after exercise insulin sensitivity is irrelevant, because the body is processing the glucose without much of any insulin involvement. That's also why insulin sensitivity doesn't matter during exercise.

 

So, from my point of view you are not doing anything wrong because you are in fact correcting the root problem.

 

However, to my eye you are also missing something key: The problem is energy balance, not running.

 

Personal story time, you can skip if you want.

When I was at BUD/s we ran all the time. 3 days per week we ran 6-10 miles, not including the literal constant movement for 1.5 hours 3x per week of boat PT, 1.5-2 hrs of log PT, and the 6 miles of 1 mile each way to the meal hall. There were 3 swims per week, ranging from 1-3 miles in the ocean or pool, depending on the day. Morning PT 3x per week was 60 minutes of nonstop movement.

 

In short, there was an enormous amount of long-term aerobic work. I did the same thing when I was in Gun School with a good bit less work, but still had quite a lot of long aerobic training. So did the other guys in my gun school class, all 13 of us, who were going Specwar.

 

We all gained muscle. We gained because we ate a crapton of food. This was before I knew jack about energy balance... I just knew I was hungry and I ate everything I could. Most of them stayed lean, but I specifically tried to get up to 13-14% body fat so I'd have some extra fat to lose during first Phase at BUD/s.

 

Sure enough, at BUD/s I dropped from 211 down to an incredibly ripped 197. My friend's sister said she didn't even know that bodies had that many muscles while they were visiting. I wasn't the only one you know, we had a group of 100+ guys who trained the same way. Almost all of us were ripped. Even the guys in 3rd Phase, who had been there for 6 months, were the same.

 

Kind of blows a giant hole in the idea that long-term aerobics are making people fat, skinny, or weak.

 

The primary problem, up to a pretty extreme point, is the energy balance. 

 

I was eating well over 12,000 kcal, and I know that because I counted just to know, and you know what? I still lost weight. Almost a pound per day and about 70% of that was fat. Now, we were definitely doing too much work because when you're taking in that much food and losing weight, chances are that you have actually burned more energy than our intestines have the ability to absorb, and have created a permanent deficit... no wonder I lost so much weight, and no wonder 30% was muscle.

 

Even today, at 31 years old, I have no trouble biking for long periods and increasing my weight while staying lean, and with the right eating anyone can do the same thing. Running, biking, swimming, makes no difference what your long-term aerobics are... it's all about using food to control your hormones.

 

That's what Biosignature is about, right? Using food and supplements to control the hormonal imbalances that show up in the skinfold comparisons, yes? So I'm rather surprised that you think it can only go one way. Don't believe everything you hear from just one side of the fence. Learn the systems themselves, forget what people tell you, and start understanding exactly what the base rules are. From there you can understand WHY certain things work, and when some people are actually wrong in their interpretation of their results. 

 

I think you have a pretty good understanding of this, but stepping away from anyone's "way" and just focusing on what the basic science is and building from there will further enable you to understand why what you are doing is working, and why you see the things you see.

 

Most long distance runners or long distance aerobic people in general are doing that activity nearly every day and lifting 1-2 times per week, while maintaining pretty crappy energy balance the whole time. There is no way to do that without seeing the hormonal profile you are seeing, but if you fix the food I promise you that you will see a similar improvement. The biggest things that will stand in the way of these individuals are money and time, because it takes more food and therefore more money to do this, and long duration aerobics take a lot of time.

 

I would definitely encourage learning more about energy balance, and then applying this along with the concept of moderating the long distance so that they maintain without losing, but can still lift and perform interval training. 

 

Now... metabolically speaking, you should always be able to run for long distances if you are used to training with high volumes of moderate to high intensity interval workouts. It only takes 3x per week to get the metabolic adaptations that promote this capability. You end up with thicker musculature of the ventricles due to the constant forceful contractions. You also get a higher ejection fraction, both of which are good things.

 

What you don't get is a stretching of the heart chambers, which does not happen with high intensity anaerobic training because the ventricles are squeezing blood out into the arteries BEFORE they have reached full capacity. The blood enters via gravity, and once you're approaching 80-90% of maximum heart rate you just aren't giving gravity enough time to pull the maximum amount of blood into the chamber and put a slight stretch on the ventricles.

 

Anaerobic work causes the heart to work extremely hard, which is totally awesome and good for you, and I am in no way discouraging this, but you don't get anywhere near the same degree of chamber enlargement that you get from keeping your heart rate at 120-140 for extended periods of time. You don't have to work hard, and it actually works better if you keep things moderate.

 

This training effect allows your body to pump more blood with the forceful contractions of high intensity training, which further increases your performance.

 

So, by neglecting long training you are actually putting an artificial limit on what you can do. You don't have to run marathons, but spend 45-60 minutes at 120-140 bpm in steady state exercise.

 

You don't even have to run, this could be a 60 minute constant easy warm up. The exercise doesn't matter, the heart stretching does. Upright work is best because this is what stretches the ventricles, so keep that in mind.

[Joachim Nagler]

6) Do you know what I mean by a carb debt

 

could you please explain what you mean by carb debt?

 

love your BUD/s stories by the way     

[Philip Chubb]

That's what Biosignature is about, right? Using food and supplements to control the hormonal imbalances that show up in the skinfold comparisons, yes? So I'm rather surprised that you think it can only go one way. Don't believe everything you hear from just one side of the fence. Learn the systems themselves, forget what people tell you, and start understanding exactly what the base rules are. From there you can understand WHY certain things work, and when some people are actually wrong in their interpretation of their results.

 

Correct. Understand that this IS my opinion based off experience, my students experience, and what I find to be the most effective. We run intervals and some of the time is spent in a lower intensity. It will give some of the benefits of distance running. But I believe it to be too detrimental for the goals we all have set. The time could be spent on a more useful stimulus. 

 

Anyways, I prefer not to internet argue so I enjoyed the talk and the points you made and will leave it here.

[Joshua Naterman]

That's true, I mean if your desired bent is towards repeat-sprint activities  and maximal strength then you're always going to get your best results by focusing more energy in that direction.

 

When that is the case, you're just doing what you have to do. Nothing wrong with that.

 

To me, understanding the mechanism by which things work is the most important thing.

 

Anyhow, the discussion has indeed been nice! Thank you.

[Andrew Graham]

Wow!!...just reading through these comments just goes to show how much people don't know how to utilize their nutritional intake nor at the right times.

 

Lowering belly fat (or any body part fat) is a simple straight forward process. Like Mr Naterman explained is If you keep your body in a caloric deficit state, you WILL lose the fat ,BUT at the same time you should also be participating in a cardio interval training program for maximum effect. Running is okat best...but if you want to get those '6 pack abs' it's gona take a little more than lowering your calorie intake. You also need to train the area you are burning the fat off! as in really working you core muscles. Someone mentioned jump rope earlier. Jump rope is generally used to warm oneself up...however if you did jump with exploding plyo jumps then that would work very well.

 

Another big problem and very much misunderstood is the concept of the 'inner unit' which consists of the TVA, internal obliques and mulitifidus. Many athletes and fitness practitioners DON'T KNOW HOW TO ENGAGE THEIR INNER UNIT. which is what gives you the 'pooch belly' effect (when your lower abs bulge out but your upper abs are tight from doing all those crunches night after night). There is a certain way in which you need to activate your inner unit to stabilize your lower back and hips when squating, lunging or even just lifting something off the floor. another point is whether your bio mechanics in general gait and movement are set up and balanced optimally! For example if you have a anterior pelvic tilt, you won't get that flat ab and strong core you want or even need especially for the GB program. So you have to work on re-balancing your body before you even think about getting a good, flat, strong core.

 

Hope this helps, But as far as the nutrition side goes and you're already in balance, just eat natural food and preferably do some sort of interval training 4 days a week. (Personally i'm doing 'Shaun T's Insanity at the moment as my morning cardio and doing GB Basic strength work in the evening. within a month my heart rate has gone down to 53 bpm and my blood pressure is 118/80!!) lots of brown rice, eggs, vegetables, fruits and meats

 

Cheers

[Tavis G]

Thats what i believe i have is a pooch lower belly. I have a lot of visible and thick veins in my forearms. Not so much bicep and shoulder but a lot in the upper chest. Granted i have about 2-4% fat to lose. Every calc say i am 11-13% body fat and want ro slim to 8%. Back to the belly, are hanging leg raises good for pooch? It is mostly caused by sagging organs/unproperly activated inner unit as stated above. I can ab rollout out knees a lot, and full HLR.

[Andrew Graham]

Thats what i believe i have is a pooch lower belly. I have a lot of visible and thick veins in my forearms. Not so much bicep and shoulder but a lot in the upper chest. Granted i have about 2-4% fat to lose. Every calc say i am 11-13% body fat and want ro slim to 8%. Back to the belly, are hanging leg raises good for pooch? It is mostly caused by sagging organs/unproperly activated inner unit as stated above. I can ab rollout out knees a lot, and full HLR.

 

Having 8% body fat won't necessarily give you those awesome looking abs...thats what i'm saying. You could be 6% body fat and still have a pooch belly. The best bet for you is to totally re-address your core conditioning program..go back to simple movements and really practice inner unit activation. here's a link that will help you. It's an article written by Paul Chek on the Inner Unit:

 

http://www.coachr.org/innerunit.htm

 

As you will gather from this article, It is a very common thing for people who have pooch belly to also have an anterior pelvic tilt. This is caused by basically sitting down alot. because your relaxed in a half flex position, the body gets used to that position and your neuro signals tell the brain that it is in a fully extended, relaxed state. After a while your hip flexors shorten and stop your pelvis from having full ROM which means loss of core control.Many office workers and computer bashers get it. If your hip flexors get so tight, during lifting or squating, the glutes don't fire properly and the body ends up calling upon the lowerback and quadraceps putting greater stress on them.

 

So a tight lower back plus elongated abdominals plus tight hip flexors equals anterior pelvic tilt!

 

Once you have cleared yourself from these symptoms start on the exercises outlined by Paul Chek in the article. Abdominal exercises are almost 80% of the time done incorrectly. Most people in gyms do them because they think if they do they will get ripped abs!? With any ab or core exercise you must remember to suck you naval in towards your spine!...as you do this you will find that your pelvis tilts posteriorly. This is the inner unit activating. You will notice that your lower abdominal suck in to make a perfect flat abdominal structure. This is what you want to work as much as poss until your brain links up this pattern to your NM (neuro-muscular) system. By the time you stop being conscious of the naval suction plus good nutrition, cardio and the GB training program...You will be well on your way to obtaining those awesome abs!!

 

 

Cheers!

[Tavis G]

Thanks man! I always knew i had an anterior pelvic just don't know how to correct it. Lots of streyching i guess? Slimming to 8% is not just for abs or more veins, but to make BW much easier. Thanks again!