Lower belly fat.

[Tavis G]

Hey guys, i just wanted to know how to lose the lower fat or it could be water weight. But im not sure it is fat because when i flex my abs, you can see the lines on the part that was bulgy(8 pack). But when i dont flex It sticks out and it bothers the ccrap outta me, can anyone tell me hoe to get rid of it. You still see my upper abs perfectly when i dont flex but cant see the lower 2.

[Vega]

Cut about 7-10 lbs and you'll shred. High protein decent amount of fat and carbs depending on your workout. Also water and SLEEP.

[gravy]

Do more cardio or interval training and clean up your diet. Jump ropes are a great tool.

[optik169]

you're probably around 13-14% bodyfat, just based on that description. Eat at a deficit, and increase your cardio work. You'll shed the extra fat in no time.

[Lindahl]

Just don't go overboard and cut too fast, or you'll lose muscle and strength as well. Eat at a small (10-20% less than your TDEE) deficit until you are happy with what you see.

[Glen222]

For removing belly fat strong commitment is required along with good exercise and diet plan. Egg is said to be the best belly fat fighting food. Daily use of egg keeps our body weight in control. Here are some exercises that are effective for abdominal region and burn fat around it.

Running and Jogging

Bicycling

Sit Ups

Bending and stretching

[Razz]

For removing belly fat strong commitment is required along with good exercise and diet plan. Egg is said to be the best belly fat fighting food. Daily use of egg keeps our body weight in control. Here are some exercises that are effective for abdominal region and burn fat around it.

Running and Jogging

Bicycling

Sit Ups

Bending and stretching

Eggs are a common allergen so if you're intolerant they will actually increase your belly fat

Running and jogging raises cortisol easily and thereby is not the most effective at removing belly fat

Bicyling ditto

Situps and bending/stretching are a waste of time

[Joshua Naterman]

For removing belly fat strong commitment is required along with good exercise and diet plan. Egg is said to be the best belly fat fighting food. Daily use of egg keeps our body weight in control. Here are some exercises that are effective for abdominal region and burn fat around it.

Running and Jogging

Bicycling

Sit Ups

Bending and stretching

What, exactly, is your educational background? Just about every post I've seen you make regarding nutrition is of dubious quality at best.

[Azure]

For removing belly fat strong commitment is required along with good exercise and diet plan. Egg is said to be the best belly fat fighting food. Daily use of egg keeps our body weight in control. Here are some exercises that are effective for abdominal region and burn fat around it.

Running and Jogging

Bicycling

Sit Ups

Bending and stretching

What, exactly, is your educational background? Just about every post I've seen you make regarding nutrition is of dubious quality at best.

No idea what he actually means with daily use of egg but other stuff does have merit. Sit ups (abdominal work) can certainly create an illusion of leanness. More muscle in the abdominal region will (percentage wise) reduce the fat on the stomach. Running and jogging have been proven methods in the bodybuilding community for years and are still the most popular methods for getting into contest shape (for which stomach fat is often the last go). Bending and stretching (especially the hip flexors) can similarly create the illusion of leanness, standing with tight hip flexors and a huge back arch just does not look good vs when a person can stand with proper posture.

I realize I might be reinterpreting some of what Glen222 said since he wasn't very specific as to how those things will help.

[Joshua Naterman]

Any person can say "exercise" which is pretty much all Glen said, along with two things that have exhaustively proven to be completely irrelevant and ineffective.

Bending and stretching have no effect on lower belly fat. Sit ups have no effect on belly fat. Bicycling and running have no more effect on lower belly fat than anything else.

Yes, sit ups will build muscle on your abdomen. No, they will not get rid of fat on your abdomen preferentially. Aerobic exercise will, if one's nutrition is up to par, reverse the pattern in which fat was originally gained.

The simple facts are that, for most men, lower belly is the first place we add fat and the last place we lose it. For many women it is the upper legs. That's why we have android pattern (male pattern) and gynoid pattern (female pattern) adipose stores in exercise physiology.

There are plenty of women who exhibit the android pattern, though a disproportionate portion seem to be Hispanic or Indian vs other ethnic groups, and some men who exhibit a gynoid pattern.

Women tend to lose fat in this order: the face, arms, chest and upper back, lower legs, belly and lower back, and finally upper legs. That is a typical female (gynoid) pattern. Men tend to lose fat in the face, arms, lower legs, chest and upper back, upper legs and upper abdominal region, and finally the lower abdominal region. That's the typical android pattern.These are the generalized patterns and do not apply exactly to each person, and of course it's not like one region gets fat depleted completely before moving on. These are just the general patterns that we see in people.

Of course, this also has a bit to do with genetics as well as whether you gained the fat from overall caloric excess or from specific issues like alcohol or extreme excess fructose.

The bottom line is that the exercise you do is irrelevant when it comes to where you lose fat. What IS relevant are your hormone levels, both anabolic and catabolic (aka stress hormones) AND having your nutrition set up so that the amount of fat you lose each day is greater than the amount you generate. Both happen every day, you just want a negative balance when trying to get lean.

I hope everyone noticed that I was very specific about what needed to be in negative balance. For more rapid weight loss you need an actual caloric deficit, but when recomposing at the same weight you do not. I'm doing it right now, AGAIN. No supplements, no drugs, just food. Well, if you include protein powder then there's one supplement that keeps me from spilling meat juice on my textbooks when running around town. At home, I'm back to eating meat.

[Andrew Long]

I'd just like to add that I am a big fan of recomposing your body. I have had almost no fat loss while having some gain in muscle mass and it looks like i have lost a hell of a lot more weight than I have. my upper body in particular looks far thinner simply because i have become a litle bit stronger and gained a little bit more muscle mass there. I have done the whole calorie restriction plus lots aerobic exercise thing (triathlon) and while i shrank and looked pretty ripped pretty quickly I soon noticed that my muscle also shrank considerably, making me look like a lanky teen more than anything! right now I am trying to keep or gain a bit of muscle while losing fat and I have to say its just as fast and twice as effective imo. I am getting far stronger and still getting cut! so while crunches and such will not be so effective for losing the fat those kind of core muscle building exercise will make it look like you have lost fat when really it is just your muscles getting bigger making the amount of fat you have look smaller by comparison! =D in conclusion if you want to be cut listen to slizzardman about body re-composition =P

[Joshua Naterman]

I'd just like to add that I am a big fan of recomposing your body.

... right now I am trying to keep or gain a bit of muscle while losing fat and I have to say its just as fast and twice as effective imo. I am getting far stronger and still getting cut! ...

... really it is just your muscles getting bigger making the amount of fat you have look smaller by comparison! =D

In conclusion if you want to be cut listen to slizzardman about body re-composition =P

In case anyone's wondering, I'm slizzardman.

Thanks ausswe! Glad you're enjoying your success

[Azure]

Any person can say "exercise" which is pretty much all Glen said, along with two things that have exhaustively proven to be completely irrelevant and ineffective.

Bending and stretching have no effect on lower belly fat. Sit ups have no effect on belly fat. Bicycling and running have no more effect on lower belly fat than anything else.

Yes, sit ups will build muscle on your abdomen. No, they will not get rid of fat on your abdomen preferentially. Aerobic exercise will, if one's nutrition is up to par, reverse the pattern in which fat was originally gained.

The simple facts are that, for most men, lower belly is the first place we add fat and the last place we lose it. For many women it is the upper legs. That's why we have android pattern (male pattern) and gynoid pattern (female pattern) adipose stores in exercise physiology.

There are plenty of women who exhibit the android pattern, though a disproportionate portion seem to be Hispanic or Indian vs other ethnic groups, and some men who exhibit a gynoid pattern.

Women tend to lose fat in this order: the face, arms, chest and upper back, lower legs, belly and lower back, and finally upper legs. That is a typical female (gynoid) pattern. Men tend to lose fat in the face, arms, lower legs, chest and upper back, upper legs and upper abdominal region, and finally the lower abdominal region. That's the typical android pattern.These are the generalized patterns and do not apply exactly to each person, and of course it's not like one region gets fat depleted completely before moving on. These are just the general patterns that we see in people.

Of course, this also has a bit to do with genetics as well as whether you gained the fat from overall caloric excess or from specific issues like alcohol or extreme excess fructose.

The bottom line is that the exercise you do is irrelevant when it comes to where you lose fat. What IS relevant are your hormone levels, both anabolic and catabolic (aka stress hormones) AND having your nutrition set up so that the amount of fat you lose each day is greater than the amount you generate. Both happen every day, you just want a negative balance when trying to get lean.

I hope everyone noticed that I was very specific about what needed to be in negative balance. For more rapid weight loss you need an actual caloric deficit, but when recomposing at the same weight you do not. I'm doing it right now, AGAIN. No supplements, no drugs, just food. Well, if you include protein powder then there's one supplement that keeps me from spilling meat juice on my textbooks when running around town. At home, I'm back to eating meat.

From your post I take it that you are under the impression that I am disagreeing with you on that those are not the most effective strategies. I am not. What I said was that they have merit. "Bending and stretching have no effect on lower belly fat." Directly no, but like I said stretching tight hip flexors can go a long way in creating an illusion of a better looking abdominal section and that in turn can be considered an "effect."

"Bicycling and running have no more effect on lower belly fat than anything else." I absolutely agree. But as you mentioned per your post there are few strategies for effectively targeting just that lower stomach fat. Studies have shown decreasing cortisol levels certainly helps. Trying to play with your cortisol levels is possible but as I mentioned before, from my experience, most bodybuilders rely on overall fat loss to get rid of the last bits of fat (which like you mentioned for adult males is often on the lower abdomen). For overall fat loss they still rely on running/jogging.

"Sit ups have no effect on belly fat. Yes, sit ups will build muscle on your abdomen. No, they will not get rid of fat on your abdomen preferentially." Once again agreed on the won't reduce the actual fat disagree on your use of the word effect. An illusion created by having more muscle on your abdomen will certainly be one of less fat. An illusion of less fat is an effect.

I took issue with your use of the word effect not that you were wrong in anything that you were saying. You might think that I am being picky just to be an a** and I can assure that is not my intent. The reason I took issue with your wording is because having been around bodybuilders for quite some time (both natural and assisted) I have seen quite a few use the strategies discussed to great effect. Of course the wording of great effect can be a misinterpreted since these guys are trying to get any tiny edge possible when they are already at very low body fat levels.

[Philip Chubb]

From your post I take it that you are under the impression that I am disagreeing with you on that those are not the most effective strategies. I am not. What I said was that they have merit.

This kind of statement is going to be a bit confusing for people who are beginners and logging onto GB for the first time. I doubt many of them are trying to create an illusion of anything when they could be leaning out for real. Joshua pointed this out and saved some people some confusion and wasted time most likely.

[Lindahl]

You don't have to jog to lose fat. You don't have to do any cardio at all. What you're effectively doing when doing cardio, is expending energy. Say your TDEE every day is 2700 kcal, and you take in 2700 kcal. You're not going to burn fat. Say now, that you increase your TDEE by running for 30 minutes every day. Your TDEE is now 3000 kcal. If you still ingest only 2700 kcal, you will lose fat.

But say that you don't like running. No problem, you could just restrict your calorie intake to 2400 a day and still lose as much weight as in the first example. This is, of course, all based on the presumption that you still get the necessary macro and micronutrients from your food, which at 2400 kcals/day should be no problemo.

[Azure]

You don't have to jog to lose fat. You don't have to do any cardio at all. What you're effectively doing when doing cardio, is expending energy. Say your TDEE every day is 2700 kcal, and you take in 2700 kcal. You're not going to burn fat. Say now, that you increase your TDEE by running for 30 minutes every day. Your TDEE is now 3000 kcal. If you still ingest only 2700 kcal, you will lose fat.

But say that you don't like running. No problem, you could just restrict your calorie intake to 2400 a day and still lose as much weight as in the first example. This is, of course, all based on the presumption that you still get the necessary macro and micronutrients from your food, which at 2400 kcals/day should be no problemo.

No you don't have to, but it sure makes it easier and faster. I like to decrease my time spent in a caloric deficit, where strength gains are harder to come by. Don't you?

[Joshua Naterman]

You don't have to jog to lose fat. You don't have to do any cardio at all. What you're effectively doing when doing cardio, is expending energy. Say your TDEE every day is 2700 kcal, and you take in 2700 kcal. You're not going to burn fat. Say now, that you increase your TDEE by running for 30 minutes every day. Your TDEE is now 3000 kcal. If you still ingest only 2700 kcal, you will lose fat.

But say that you don't like running. No problem, you could just restrict your calorie intake to 2400 a day and still lose as much weight as in the first example. This is, of course, all based on the presumption that you still get the necessary macro and micronutrients from your food, which at 2400 kcals/day should be no problemo.

True.

Just know that you still SHOULD be doing cardio (because it's good for your heart and for that reason is a known factor in long term health) and making sure you're eating enough to maintain a small caloric deficit and not a ridiculously huge one (which is usually what happens with cardio). Don't be one of those people that spends 40-60 minutes doing cardio and then refuses to eat for 2 hours. That is stupid and counter-productive.

Know how much you burn, approximately, during your cardio session and replace most of it. Say, 70-80%. You will drop bodyfat much more rapidly this way and retain much more lean mass. Especially if the majority of your replacement is from carbs.

Edit: This post is just to make sure people are aware of WHY you should be doing cardio work, and how to keep it from destroying your lean mass.

There's a good reason why I am now 223 lbs dehydrated in the morning and getting bigger every month, yet also running around and biking to school quite a bit, netting around an hour of cardio 4-5 days per week. I practice exactly what I preach.

[Lindahl]

You don't have to jog to lose fat. You don't have to do any cardio at all. What you're effectively doing when doing cardio, is expending energy. Say your TDEE every day is 2700 kcal, and you take in 2700 kcal. You're not going to burn fat. Say now, that you increase your TDEE by running for 30 minutes every day. Your TDEE is now 3000 kcal. If you still ingest only 2700 kcal, you will lose fat.

But say that you don't like running. No problem, you could just restrict your calorie intake to 2400 a day and still lose as much weight as in the first example. This is, of course, all based on the presumption that you still get the necessary macro and micronutrients from your food, which at 2400 kcals/day should be no problemo.

No you don't have to, but it sure makes it easier and faster. I like to decrease my time spent in a caloric deficit, where strength gains are harder to come by. Don't you?

If you think running for 30 min is easier than abstaining from a cinnamonbun, then yes, it is easier. It's not faster though, since in my example the caloric deficit was the same in both scenarios (300 kcal).

[Lindahl]

True.

Just know that you still SHOULD be doing cardio (because it's good for your heart and for that reason is a known factor in long term health) and making sure you're eating enough to maintain a small caloric deficit and not a ridiculously huge one (which is usually what happens with cardio). Don't be one of those people that spends 40-60 minutes doing cardio and then refuses to eat for 2 hours. That is stupid and counter-productive.

Know how much you burn, approximately, during your cardio session and replace most of it. Say, 70-80%. You will drop bodyfat much more rapidly this way and retain much more lean mass. Especially if the majority of your replacement is from carbs.

Agree on everything but the last part about the 2 hour thing as usual It's generally recommended to stay at a 10-20% kcal deficit when trying to lose weight, as not to lose too much muscle in the process.

There's a good reason why I am now 223 lbs dehydrated in the morning and getting bigger every month, yet also running around and biking to school quite a bit, netting around an hour of cardio 4-5 days per week. I practice exactly what I preach.

Myself I bike everywhere, and since I don't live very close either to my university or the gym I average about an hour a day or more on the bike, so I got the cardio part covered.

[Azure]

If you think running for 30 min is easier than abstaining from a cinnamonbun, then yes, it is easier. It's not faster though, since in my example the caloric deficit was the same in both scenarios (300 kcal).

If this was true no bodybuilder would ever do cardio, sounds good in theory (a lot of things do) but in practice and reality almost EVERY bodybuilder getting ready for a show does cardio. Most hate it with a passion but still do it because getting ready for a show to be 6% bodyfat is easier and faster with added cardio. These aren't my opinions, most current TOP level bodybuilder coaches all add cardio into their cutting phases and contest prep work for their clients. If what you are saying was true none of these guys would do cardio and would just diet down for shows and like I said before the reality is that they do not do this but do diet+cardio.

Also I'd like to know where you are getting this information from? Did you just read it somewhere and are rehashing it? or did you ever actually diet down for a show or been in single digits at a substantial amount of muscle mass? Did you ever actually help anyone create a plan to go down to single digit bodyfat using your theories? I have done both of these things and my "theories" are backed up by most in the bodybuilding community. No this isn't a bodybuilding forum but few groups know how to lose fat more efficiently and quickly than bodybuilders.

I am inclined to listen what Joshua is saying because he is 223 and lean. I don't care how genetically gifted you are (not saying that he is) but that still takes hard work and using things that actually work to get to but what are your experiences?

[Nic Branson]

You can get lower with no cardio. Can everyone maybe but not easily or reliably in a short period of time. Some of us just have the metabolism for it. Outside of the caloric aspect and the health aspects cardio done in an aerobic manner will increase recovery from hard strength sessions. Everything you do contributes, the key is implementing it smartly.

[Lindahl]

If this was true no bodybuilder would ever do cardio, sounds good in theory (a lot of things do) but in practice and reality almost EVERY bodybuilder getting ready for a show does cardio. Most hate it with a passion but still do it because getting ready for a show to be 6% bodyfat is easier and faster with added cardio. These aren't my opinions, most current TOP level bodybuilder coaches all add cardio into their cutting phases and contest prep work for their clients. If what you are saying was true none of these guys would do cardio and would just diet down for shows and like I said before the reality is that they do not do this but do diet+cardio.

What do you mean "if this was true" ? Do you think there's a difference between creating a caloric deficit through cardio and through diet? The reason people do cardio is because it allows them to easily create a higher caloric deficit. Lots of people cut without cardio, and only use cardio at the end of the cut.

Also I'd like to know where you are getting this information from? Did you just read it somewhere and are rehashing it? or did you ever actually diet down for a show or been in single digits at a substantial amount of muscle mass? Did you ever actually help anyone create a plan to go down to single digit bodyfat using your theories? I have done both of these things and my "theories" are backed up by most in the bodybuilding community. No this isn't a bodybuilding forum but few groups know how to lose fat more efficiently and quickly than bodybuilders.

I like browsing the bodybuilding.com nutrition forums, and I also like reading different studies on pubmed and similar sites about nutrition and exercise. It's not like I'm saying anything radical really, it's simple thermodynamics. I'm not an expert at all, just an interested layman.

I am inclined to listen what Joshua is saying because he is 223 and lean. I don't care how genetically gifted you are (not saying that he is) but that still takes hard work and using things that actually work to get to but what are your experiences?

Joshua seems like an intellectual guy and alot of what he says is really sound. I don't agree with everything he says, especially not regarding nutritiming, but generally he's up to date with stuf it seems. But listening to a guy by default just because he's in good physical form isn't something I'd do. Lots of guys who's in great physical shape don't know what they're talking about. A really big and ripped guy at my former gym told me that I'd never get big unless I ate oatmeal every morning because "the fiber is highly anabolic".

[Azure]

What do you mean "if this was true" ? Do you think there's a difference between creating a caloric deficit through cardio and through diet? The reason people do cardio is because it allows them to easily create a higher caloric deficit. Lots of people cut without cardio, and only use cardio at the end of the cut.

Like I said before yes you can certainly get lean without cardio, no it will not be as fast. "Lots of people cut without cardio, and only use cardio at the end of the cut." As it stand at the moment 8/8 of the natural bodybuilders that I personally know (not just read their logs or about them on some forum) do cardio during their prep/cutting phases, none of them diet down then do cardio and the end of the cut. As far they are concerned none of their competitors do either. So once again where are you getting this information from?

I like browsing the bodybuilding.com nutrition forums, and I also like reading different studies on pubmed and similar sites about nutrition and exercise. It's not like I'm saying anything radical really, it's simple thermodynamics. I'm not an expert at all, just an interested layman.

Reading studies and actually applying the theories are two different things. There are studies that show back bending (as found in gymnastics) is extremely detrimental to spine health, I doubt most gymnastic coaches feel the same way. There are studies that show no difference in training between plyometric, resistance, and a mix in power out. Yet few power sport coaches train with just resistance or plyometrics alone.

Reading up is all nice and good but unless you've either A. coached multiple people with success or B. have significant training in what you are talking about yourself when you are saying something that goes against the grain that most people are practicing in that chosen discipline you are a just theorizing. Internet access has bred armchair experts without any coaching, any real experience that like to put out theories few people practice as they are the iron rule.

Joshua seems like an intellectual guy and alot of what he says is really sound. I don't agree with everything he says, especially not regarding nutritiming, but generally he's up to date with stuf it seems. But listening to a guy by default just because he's in good physical form isn't something I'd do. Lots of guys who's in great physical shape don't know what they're talking about. A really big and ripped guy at my former gym told me that I'd never get big unless I ate oatmeal every morning because "the fiber is highly anabolic".

I would choose to listen Joshua because he has both sides of the coin. Knowledge and personal experience. You can not say the same.

[Lindahl]

Like I said before yes you can certainly get lean without cardio, no it will not be as fast. "Lots of people cut without cardio, and only use cardio at the end of the cut." As it stand at the moment 8/8 of the natural bodybuilders that I personally know (not just read their logs or about them on some forum) do cardio during their prep/cutting phases, none of them diet down then do cardio and the end of the cut. As far they are concerned none of their competitors do either. So once again where are you getting this information from?

Assuming the caloric deficit is the same, then yes, it will be as fast. Bodybuilders cutting for a competition is not the same as "losing that underbelly fat". Bodybuilders get to extremely low BF% levels which are hazardous to be at for any extended period of time. I said lots of people cut without cardio, not alot of bodybuilders cut without cardio. It's a pretty well known thing that losing fat gets much, much harder at sub 9-10% BF, whichm I assume, is why bodybuilders use cardio to help out. Normal people don't go sub 8-9% usually.

Reading studies and actually applying the theories are two different things. There are studies that show back bending (as found in gymnastics) is extremely detrimental to spine health, I doubt most gymnastic coaches feel the same way. There are studies that show no difference in training between plyometric, resistance, and a mix in power out. Yet few power sport coaches train with just resistance or plyometrics alone.

There are indeed bad studies being done on everything, which is why it's important to read the "method" part of the study, not just the abstract, the results and the discussion

Reading up is all nice and good but unless you've either A. coached multiple people with success or B. have significant training in what you are talking about yourself when you are saying something that goes against the grain that most people are practicing in that chosen discipline you are a just theorizing. Internet access has bred armchair experts without any coaching, any real experience that like to put out theories few people practice as they are the iron rule.

I don't think what I said goes against the grain of the industry. You do not HAVE to do cardio to get beachlean, or to lose that last bit of bellyfat. That's all I said, and as far as I know, that's pretty mainstream. The fact that many people do it anyway is beside the point. Many people think spot fat burning works too and spend hours each week doing crunches, when in reality they need to either up their TDEE or down their calorie intake.

[Nigel Leeming]

Unfortunately, weight loss depends as much on the psychology of the individual as much as on a deficit of a few hundred calories. For me, now at 61kg or 134lb, it took a lot of running. Right now I do 10 or more miles every other day. When I'm not running, I'm climbing or doing gymnastics or gymnastics bodyweight training. My scales say I'm 44.3% muscle and 7.5% fat. I'd pay good money to find out what I really am, but I'm somewhere around there. Using the word cardio is confusing as it makes me think of cardio classes which might use 300kcals/hr. Running is the only thing that does it for me at about 600kcal/hr. Climbing, gymnastics and bodyweight exercises, or pushing weights only uses 250-350kcal/hr. Right now I'm trying to get down to 60kg, and consistently failing, not because of my inability to count calories, but because of my thought processes. It's only 9am and I've already fallen into having a date(20 kcals) with my cup of coffee(70kcals) which I should have saved till 10am. Luckily it's a running day so I may yet be able to afford such extravagance.