People that can get away with faulty movement patterns

[Bradmelon]

And coming out uninjured in the process.

I've read time and time again on this forum about BUILDING A SOLID BASE OF STABILITY through proper prehab and such because bad movement eventually leads to stagnating, frustrating injury in the long-run. But I've come to believe that this simply isn't a consequence for some people. Look at this guy, for instance:

Yes, yes. I know it's impressive, he's super-beastly, and you all want him to have your babies; but just keep a lid on the ocular fluids and bare with me here.

Upon closer inspection, his scaps are winging HARD as he pulls up and his shoulders are internally rotated, and with the high amount of volume he's performing I'm surprised he hasn't been injured, which I can confirm from the fact he still makes videos of his training.

So what gives? I try to train hard and instead end up with shoulder pain for almost 8 months, while I'm sure this guy has never done a foam roll in his life.

[yuri marmerstein]

skinny legs and raw talent. Tough to compete with

[Coach Sommer]

... Upon closer inspection, his scaps are winging HARD as he pulls up and his shoulders are internally rotated, and with the high amount of volume he's performing I'm surprised he hasn't been injured, which I can confirm from the fact he still makes videos of his training ...

While not 100% perfect, there was nothing really wrong with his technique.

You are confusing utilizing full scapular motion during joint prep and mobility work with the NATURAL movement used during heavy strength work. They are two separate and distinct animals. Anyone who claims otherwise is simply trying to distract you with razzle dazzle and BS.

Case in point, I have never seen a single high level gymnast ever not internally rotate his scaps during a rope climb.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[yuri marmerstein]

Good point coach, just as a powerlifter may round their back a bit during a competition deadlift does not mean that is their typical lifting form.

It can also be the issue of intent vs. manifestation. As the intent for example in planche and front lever to protract and retract the scaps respectively, this is not always what manifests as one gets to the advanced variations.

[Bradmelon]

When I said his shoulders were internally rotated, I was referring to his standing posture. Sorry for going into over-analyst rant mode on this, but I'm just a little frustrated. I mean, here I am doing dinky shrug work and joint prehab with the promise it will give me "incredible" strength, but the guy in the video probably doesn't even make it his first thought.

I've heard a few times on this forum and other places about how have winged scapulae can cause shoulder pain and cause you to plateau on strength work due to the fact it inhibits several neural impulses in your upper back or something like that, and that it's this well- built retractor strength along with protraction that gives you the stability to keep making progress. But again, I'm pretty sure the guy in the video knows nothing about any of this, and just jumped up and started doing high volume pullups right from the beginning with shoulders in alignment hell, while I've been doing nothing but rows (and pushups) when I should have had at least one rep of OAC down from when I started MONTHS ago.

I'm definitely getting stronger, though I'm just really getting impatient, if you can all understand where this is coming from.

[Coach Sommer]

The concepts of joint prep and strength development are not Either/Or propositions; both are required for a well balanced physique capable of withstanding the rigors encountered on the field of play. Nor is it necessary for them to be balanced 50/50; the ratio will remain fluid over the course of your athletic career depending upon your specific needs of the moment.

The one fundamental certainty is that it is as equally foolish to focus exclusively on joint prep as it is to attempt to focus exclusively on strength; both avenues, if attempted in isolation, will result in long term physiological imbalances and a drastic reduction in the realization of your athletic potential.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Nic Scheelings]

Hard to tell without his shirt off, but i don't think he was winging as bad as you seem to think.

May be some prominence of the inferior scapula angle, but this may be muscle bulk as well making it look like it's winging more than it is. Anyway like i said really need the shirt off to assess what's going on at the scapula. Not requesting that by the way, just stating. My guess is he probably does stabilise his scapula pretty well in this movement, very hard to do even OAC without it.

[John Sapinoso]

his advice on how he built up to this was "very tricky. i will make a video showing how to build power for these. work chest, back, core, shoulders, etc. pushups are actually great, controlled pushups of course" he's clearly very much talented.

[Philip Chubb]

his advice on how he built up to this was "very tricky. i will make a video showing how to build power for these. work chest, back, core, shoulders, etc. pushups are actually great, controlled pushups of course" he's clearly very much talented.

Ha!

[yuri marmerstein]

Keep in mind the issue of theory vs. practice

We can sit on our computers all day and talk about winged scapula but it will get us no closer to OAC. Meanwhile, this gentleman is in the gym practicing his one arm chins

Don't get me wrong, I love to discuss the theory of everything, but sometimes you have to put it all aside and just get shit done. A lot of the elite level athletes and performers I've had a chance to train with knew surprisingly little on the theory of what they did, they just went out and trained.

[Edward Smith]

Yuri,

TOO TRUE!

Also,

Regarding the video, Coach is right his technique is not that bad (I don't believe his scaps are winging much if at all, he can do 10 OAP's he's going to have a muscular back).

Also, all this talk about movement patterns and everything, even if you are doing something badly as long as you aren't stepping outside your practiced movement pattern there isn't such a danger of injuring yourself (it's still there, just not as significant) especially with a movement like a pull up. Sports with extremely high forces/loads (anything with dynamic and ballistic elements) and/or which is unpredictable and unrehearsed (i.e rugby, boxing, MMA, soccer) opens up more opportunity to show a weakness in your overall preparation via an injury.

Ed

[Michel Hendrickson]

And coming out uninjured in the process.

I've read time and time again on this forum about BUILDING A SOLID BASE OF STABILITY through proper prehab and such because bad movement eventually leads to stagnating, frustrating injury in the long-run. But I've come to believe that this simply isn't a consequence for some people. Look at this guy, for instance:

Yes, yes. I know it's impressive, he's super-beastly, and you all want him to have your babies; but just keep a lid on the ocular fluids and bare with me here.

Upon closer inspection, his scaps are winging HARD as he pulls up and his shoulders are internally rotated, and with the high amount of volume he's performing I'm surprised he hasn't been injured, which I can confirm from the fact he still makes videos of his training.

So what gives? I try to train hard and instead end up with shoulder pain for almost 8 months, while I'm sure this guy has never done a foam roll in his life.

I don't get your part about the babies and the ocular fluids but what you see here is what a well developed back looks like.

Also you don't know him so you can't say he isn't doing joint prehab. Also you don't know how long he's been training so you can't compare yourself to him.

[Bradmelon]

Sorry for the late response to my own thread, I've had a work and other things going on.

To start, the comment about "babies and ocular fluids" was just a smart comment I made up to let everyone know to keep back their tears of amazement and not get off track. Don't take it too personally; it's just my writing style.

And to get back on topic, let me begin by saying that I'm absolutely 110% sure that the guy does NOT do prehab of any kind, which I know because in the video I posted a Youtube user also left a comment about his scapular dilemma, and suggested that he do some serratus pushups, one of the most basic prehab exercises, to which he responded "lol yeah I'll have to give those a try sometime".

As for his training history, I actually did some research on that awhile back, and it turns out he's been bodybuilding for about 7 years. And though it may not be obvious from the video, the guy is only about 5'3" and somewhere within the 130-140 lb range, so the forces acting on his joints are nowhere near that of, oh say, a 6'6" lifter at 285 lbs. And mixed with the fact that he's been doing exercises like pushups and pullups since he was a kid (so he claims) compared to someone like me, even if I hate to admit it, who didn't do his first pullup or pushup until he was a freshman in high school, it's safe to say he's probably less injury prone.

And again, please don't be harsh with comments because like I said in my first sentence, I don't mean to attack or offend anyone.

[Michel Hendrickson]

He is indeed hard to compete with on the pullups. Being so short and so lightweight makes it that much easier to do a pullup.

I myself am six feet tall, weigh 210 pounds and can do only six chinups. But heavy people should not despair, for the heavier you are the stronger you can potentially become from doing the pullups. Pullups are the tool, not the goal itself, keep that in mind.