A lot of questions about WOD, overtraining and others

[Smec]

Hi,

This will be a somewhat long post, it took a while until I decided to post so I have a lot of questions .

Can any of you help me optimizing my workout scedule? Recentle so many things have been added to my trainings that I fear I might overtrain if I start the WODs.

Currently my routine is:

Mon: KungFu training (2hs) mostly leg heavy because of the deep stances.

Tue: Strength training with rings (mostly excercises from the book)

Wed: only stretching, i've been planning to do the long stretching that Coach has advised in other topics - though i dont know how will it affect my recovery

Thu: Rings again in the morning, KungFu in the evening

Fri: light stretching, practicing skills

Sat: Rings

Sun: 'acrobatics' training, 4 hours

(not sure how to call it, it's the only adult class i've found a few weeks ago, we mostly learn floor excercises, not the human pyramid and similar things one can find, googling acrobatics).

So my questions are:

- I want to start doing the WODs, as they seem fun, I am a bit afraid of the 4 days for strenght instead of 3 i do (if i already have 3 'normal' trainings a week)

- There have been a thread about overtraining, but I still not understand it completely: should my other trainings count as leg days? (i think the acrobatics training probably counts, 3 hours of backflips made my legs really sore), what about practicing handstand on my off days?

- Regarding the handstands, if I spend some time in it all the blood rushes to my head, aside from the aesthetics that my head looks like a tomato, it's not really comfortable (breathing normally doesnt help too much). Will this go away with practice?

I have been training for the OAC, 1.5 months ago I bought a pair of rings and started to do the BtGB excercises (and not training for the oac directly). From being able to do a slow negative with a little stop in it with one hand, then after a long rest with the other. Yesterday, after doing my usual strength training, I could do 3x1 negatives with each hand, (only 2-3 secs of rest between). To be honest I am really anxious to start training with negs one or two days a week, I dont really know how I could fit it in if I do the WOD. Maybe I could replace some of the pull days with it? . Is it even necessary to to the negs if I do the WODs? (i suppose the strength gains wont be much different - or atleast not less - then from the negs).

This has been asked a lot if time in other threads, just to clarify befor WODs i have to (or should) do FSPs, should i do every static stuff i can do (for 50% of the max secs):

- L sit

- support hold (on rings? do you usually combine it with the L?)

- FL,BL progressions

- tuck planche (rings?)

- shoulderstand on rings (though i cant go up to full vertical, i am always afraid that i will fall flat on my face or back if I go full vertical )

[Ian Myers]

remember you dont have to do the wods 4 days a week, you could do them less. Also, you could take out the leg wods if you dont think you can handle it

How long can you hold a handstand ( either against a wall or not)

Yes you should do all of your fsps before every workout, and you can substitute your negative oacs in for one of the exercises on a pulling day.

Good Luck

[Smec]

Around 2mins, if I really really have to, I usually do 1 or 1.5 mins, so i can do more then one set .

[Paradox]

Hello,

What kind of kung fu training are you doing? This makes a difference. For instance, are you doing contemporary long fist wushu, southern fist, northern shaolin, etc? Various styles put more emphasis on different body parts. You say your kung fu is leg heavy, so I'm guessing you're practicing long fist? Keep in mind that jump kicks take a lot of explosive energy not just from your legs but also your lower back and abdominal muscles.

If it isn't already apparent, I too practice kung fu (contemporary wushu long fist). For me, I do the WOD's 4 days a week with wushu throughout the day, every day. This doesn't mean I'm doing butterfly kicks all day, but rather, I'll be focusing more on skill work such as forms and various sequences in between daily tasks. This does mean that I am doing stances all day long but never to fatigue. As for more strength focused moves like the jump kicks, I usually do them on Coach Sommer's explosive leg WOD days instead of his ascribed workout.

In summary, I am recommending that you basically start greasing the groove with kung fu. 4 hours a week isn't going to cut it if you want to get better. I also suggest you start following the WOD's 3 days a week (ex, Monday, Wednesday, Friday) instead of 4 because the acrobatics training may create some difficulties. As long as you aren't going to fatigue with kung fu skill training, you'll find that you won't be overtraining.

In the end, you are really going to have to decide if you can handle the load of everything you're doing. But start with 3 days a week of WOD's, and then after some time move up to 4 days if you feel you can handle it.

As for the FSP's, you are again the judge of how many you can handle before the WOD. I think many people here pick 4 FSP's and steady state them. Now for the basics of FSP's:

How long can you hold a support hold on the rings? Is it with rings turned out and arms away from the lats?

If your support is good, you can start doing your l-sit FSP on the rings if you have a 60 second advanced l-sit on the floor. Otherwise, keep them separate.

Focus primarily on getting a planche on the floor before you start worrying about the rings. So, do your tuck planches on the floor, not the rings. Make sure your scapular protraction is good and your hips are at/above shoulder level.

Now personally (and this is my opinion so others may not agree), if you want to work on getting the one arm chin up, then my suggestion is to cut out the back lever from your FSP's for now. The one arm chin up requires specific practice, so like igm503 said, just substitute your negative oacs for one the exercises on a WOD pulling day. The oac's will do as good of a job, if not better, as the back lever at preparing your biceps tendon for future ring strength training. But keep in mind that getting a good back lever is also crucial to getting a good ring planche.

[Smec]

Seven star mantis. I say it's leg heavy because we do spend a lot of time in the cat stance, and in a similar one of which's english name i dont know (90-10% weight distribution, and the front leg is straight, toes point upward).

- our training looks similar to this one

Greasing the groove is a good idea, it's a bit off topic but in your opinion, which one is better:

Though a bit emberrassing but after 4 years of kungfu I still/again have some flexibility issues (calf) - i have been neglecting trainings because of the university. For the past few weeks I've been mostly concentrating on stretching, instead of skill practice. You have got me thinking: most of these stances do stretch where it needs stretching - I usually just stand in the cat stance for 3x4 mins as stretching. Does concentrating on skill practicing provide comparable results in flexibility?

I also have another question, related to skill practice in both sports: I have a tendency to tense up a bit - by this I mean that my movements will be much more rigid, robocop-like. Do you have any solutions to this besides trying to relax?

For the support, I'm not sure ~60 sec probably, I will time my statics tomorrow, I doubt that I will be able to do a stict Lsit for 60 sec.

Now that I think about it, I never made sure that the hips are above the shoulder level, thanks for reminding me

By the way, thank you for the help, both of you .

[Paradox]

For the past few weeks I've been mostly concentrating on stretching, instead of skill practice. You have got me thinking: most of these stances do stretch where it needs stretching - I usually just stand in the cat stance for 3x4 mins as stretching. Does concentrating on skill practicing provide comparable results in flexibility?

Yes, I would say that concentrating on skill practicing would provide better flexibility results (if you are talking about skill practicing through GTG). I found in the past that, for example, practicing hundreds of cat stances throughout a day for each side for maybe 10 seconds at a time is of much more flexibility benefit than focusing on it in a small time gap at, say, a practice session at your martial arts center. Back when i started wushu, my groin in the drop stance was about 1.5/2 feet off the ground. After about 7 months, I switched to greasing all of my wushu skills and stances. I found my drop stance dropped significantly. If I remember correctly, my groin dropped somewhere to around a palm's length from the ground by two week's time. I find it is much more effective than a 3x4min stretch just once in a day. To a certain extent, frequency is more important than intensity.

I also have another question, related to skill practice in both sports: I have a tendency to tense up a bit - by this I mean that my movements will be much more rigid, robocop-like. Do you have any solutions to this besides trying to relax?

Hmm, I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure how to address the issue. I have seen a few guys at my university's gymnastics team with very ugly routines because they cannot control the transitions between movements (i.e., a press to handstand). Thus, they really tense and strain their bodies to execute the movement, but it ends up looking very bad. It seems to me that most of the time it is a strength issue. While one can have the strength to perform a certain movement, it does not mean that they have the strength to perform a movement well and smoothly. The latter comes with more time put into the movement and studying the movement which thus yields more strength. That is all I can think of to address your issue.

For the support, I'm not sure ~60 sec probably, I will time my statics tomorrow, I doubt that I will be able to do a stict Lsit for 60 sec.

Always remember, it is a good idea to build up 60 seconds on every basic progression before moving onwards. Make sure you've really milked the early progressions for all they're worth. I recommend you do build up to a good 60 second floor l-sit before you move onto building a 60 second XR l-sit. Of course, there are days in the WOD where Coach will have you perform a ring strength series with an XR l-sit. So go ahead and do those, but keep in mind that that is the WOD, not your FSP. FSP's should go really slowly, taking lots of time to build up excellent strength levels.

[nf46]

Is it even necessary to to the negs if I do the WODs? (i suppose the strength gains wont be much different - or atleast not less - then from the negs).

I know the WODs are great fun, but if you are that set on an OAC, then some more specialised training may be required. I believe if you dig around, you will find Dillon Zrike saying that he is the only athlete in Coach's gym with an OAC, and Coach has stated that they all follow the WODs. He says that he believes he got the OAC due to his focus on reverse muscle-ups.

Hope this helps