Explain to me, XR push ups

[seiyafan]

When I do XR push ups with hands turn out during entire ROM (like XP PPP in the book except I don't lean as much), I found that it put a lot more stress on both elbow and chest, especially on the tendons. Why is that?

I just find it fascinating that a little change like this can greatly stimulate the muscles.

[Joshua Naterman]

Chest has to take over more as deltoids are relied upon less. More stress on the elbow flexors because you are resisting elbow extension.

[Aaron Griffin]

So to hijack this topic a little:

With RTO the entire time, the hands either need to descend outwards at a wider angle (compared to a regular ring pushup), or downwards similar to a PPP. Which is the preferred method?

[Rik de Kort]

Where'd you get the idea to try full RTO pushups? The book recommends rings turned out 45 degrees. After that, XR Bulgarian pushups follow.

[Aaron Griffin]

Where'd you get the idea to try full RTO pushups? The book recommends rings turned out 45 degrees. After that, XR Bulgarian pushups follow.

I'm not sure if you're replying to me or not, but three points:

• 
  [*:259rax2d] Even with 45 degree RTO, the hands still need to move, unless you really want to short the ROM
  [*:259rax2d] Just because it's "not in the book" doesn't mean it's invalid
  [*:259rax2d] I'm not doing a full 90 degree RTO

[seiyafan]

I am confused, the PPP is the next level after XR Bulgarian.

[Joshua Naterman]

So to hijack this topic a little:

With RTO the entire time, the hands either need to descend outwards at a wider angle (compared to a regular ring pushup), or downwards similar to a PPP. Which is the preferred method?

Both. One is more similar to planche, one is more similar to maltese.

Increase ROM slowly, and don't be stupid. You should not be trying to go below hands level with ribs (in terms of how far down the chest goes during the ROM) until you are strong enough to be working on foot or knee supported back lever curls.

In case you don't know where that fits in, at the seminars that was only shown to the intermediate and advanced ring strength guys. Demus (Nic now), John Sapinosa, Dillon Zrike, possibly Alex87, and perhaps a few I'm not remembering are ready for this. The rest of us are not.

[seiyafan]

When I first tried XR PPP, I had to have both knees on the floor to compensate for more ROM, it's no joke. With RTO the deeper you go the harder it gets.

[Aaron Griffin]

With RTO the entire time, the hands either need to descend outwards at a wider angle (compared to a regular ring pushup), or downwards similar to a PPP. Which is the preferred method?

Both. One is more similar to planche, one is more similar to maltese.

To be clear: are you saying the hands should move in BOTH directions at the same time (down and outside) or that both are valid RTO pushup styles?

[Rik de Kort]

• 
  [*:srarj3ko] Even with 45 degree RTO, the hands still need to move, unless you really want to short the ROM
  [*:srarj3ko] Just because it's "not in the book" doesn't mean it's invalid
  [*:srarj3ko] I'm not doing a full 90 degree RTO

Oh, sorry, maybe we understood eachother wrong. I wasn't saying anything was wrong, I was wondering where you got the idea from.

[Joshua Naterman]

With RTO the entire time, the hands either need to descend outwards at a wider angle (compared to a regular ring pushup), or downwards similar to a PPP. Which is the preferred method?

Both. One is more similar to planche, one is more similar to maltese.

To be clear: are you saying the hands should move in BOTH directions at the same time (down and outside) or that both are valid RTO pushup styles?

Look at the hand position for maltese. Look at hand position for planche. There is no preferred position, they are different. Same goes for push ups. Do push ups in the positions you wish to gain strength in, only using a ROM you can control.

[Aaron Griffin]

If what they are referring to, the hands should not move and both are valid styles. A PMP is stupidly harder than a PPP/+, but both require RTO. Like slizz said, increase ROM sowly as they are a kick in the ass. Just like PL lean, you will increase the distance of your hands further back over time. If you are unsure, try your PL leans on XR and see how much a little distance back makes a difference. Or similar to spreading your arms out in a RTO support.

So my issue comes up here - with a completely normal ring pushup, the rings are able to slide to the outsides of the shoulders to allow for full ROM. Yet in an RTO pushup, this is not the case - the hands need to move slightly to allow for the rings to not collide with the body.

It seems like you guys are saying that there should be no hand movement, and the ROM of the pushup should end essentially when the top of the ring touches the chest/deltoid. But this seems weird to me.

Would someone mind posting a picture of what the bottom position of an RTO pushup is supposed to look like?