HS Presses and Reverse Leg Lifts

[Aaron Griffin]

So I'm a bit confused here. The book includes various RLLs (headstand, headstand weighted, stall bars, and handstand) which SEEM to be similar to handstand presses. However, the HS Press WODs use box presses instead of RLL variations.

Are these two things different exercises? Or is a headstand leg lift really just an easier form of an HS press?

Additionally, should headstand presses be done against a wall to ensure no lean? Or is lean allowed in RLLs?

[Mikko Saks]

So I'm a bit confused here. The book includes various RLLs (headstand, headstand weighted, stall bars, and handstand) which SEEM to be similar to handstand presses. However, the HS Press WODs use box presses instead of RLL variations.

Are these two things different exercises? Or is a headstand leg lift really just an easier form of an HS press?

Additionally, should headstand presses be done against a wall to ensure no lean? Or is lean allowed in RLLs?

I think headstand presses are one of the first steps in learning the basic mechanics of the press HS, but are not in any means even close the real press to HS, which is a very delicate combination of shoulder strength, active pike/straddle flexibility and balance to say at least.

Compared to RLLifts, HS presses against the wall (where your head is NOT touching the floor) are somewhat closer to the actual press without the shoulder/scapular strength needed, and they dont offer much help with what is the hardest part of the straight arm press to HS, which is lifting your toes off the floor and hips above your shoulders. But still a good tool to have and it can teach you the right technique at least up to a certain point if you have just started training for the press.

Box presses are done freestanding so there you basically have the real thing with limited ROM, and as your technique, flexibility and strength improves you lower the box.

I have never done boxpresses myself so im in no way an exprert. They way im learning to press ATM is basically just doing #%&tloads of negatives, and working on my active flexibility. There are also many drills you can work with, check out other threads on the topic.

Heres where i am currently at:

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[Aaron Griffin]

Compared to RLLifts, HeSPresses are somewhat closer to the actual press

So you're saying there is BOTH a HeS RLL and a HeS Press? Now I'm more confused. What's the difference?

[Mikko Saks]

Compared to RLLifts, HeSPresses are somewhat closer to the actual press

So you're saying there is BOTH a HeS RLL and a HeS Press? Now I'm more confused. What's the difference?

Whooops!

I meant Compared to RLLifts, HS presses against the wall (where your head is NOT touching the floor)..

Sorry about that! ..edited my previous post.

[Aaron Griffin]

Great, thanks for the clarification. One more question:

Box presses are done freestanding so there you basically have the real thing with limited ROM, and as your technique, flexibility and strength improves you lower the box.

Is there any room for box presses against a wall? I mean, what if I've been working straddle negatives against the wall for a time, but cannot lift off the ground successfully. Would it be worthwhile training a box press here as an aid to move on to a full positive press against the wall?

[Blairbob]

sure, or just negative as low as you can go and still be able to press back to the top

[Roody Aumoithe]

This is good information, I like this. By the way good stuff for the vid poster. i am thinking this would also help fix my HS underbalancing issues. True or not?

[timg]

Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about learning the jump-press to handstand? i.e. using momentum for the inital part of the press? Will this just give me bad habits or is it a good way to learn the right activation without using a box?

for reference so you know what i'm talking about

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from about 0:45

[Mikko Saks]

Does anyone have anything good or bad to say about learning the jump-press to handstand? i.e. using momentum for the inital part of the press? Will this just give me bad habits or is it a good way to learn the right activation without using a box?

Bad habits? Most certainly. The thing with press to HS is that people just want to get into the handstand, while instead you should put heavy focus on the BOTTOM part of the move - i.e. working on your hamstring flexibility and shoulder strength to be able to slowly lift the toes off the floor and move the hips above the shoulders. Only after your hips are aligned with your shoulders your feet should start moving towards the HS position.

So, the key to learning the press is practicing the bottom part of the move. I think this cant be emphasised enough. There are various ways to do this, but you can simply place your hands on the floor as close to your toes as possible, and rocking back and forth.

There is one drill that is at least in my opinion absolutely the number one drill in learning to press correctly, ill make you a video of it later since i cant find a video of it in youtube.

[Mikko Saks]

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[timg]

might try this tonight with some mats and a channel, safety first for us uncoordinated folk.

[Mikko Saks]

safety first for us uncoordinated folk.

as always

[Mikko Saks]

weeeellll, after 6months of working on this skill every day, i finally am able to press in some way. I havent been this happy in years!

Every day the technique and strength has improved a little, and now that my left leg has almost healed completely i can start working on my pike and straddle flexibility again after 2months.

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[Vagabond]

I'm surprised you guys don't seem to be practicing these drills:

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Appart from the box presses to handstand and the negatives, they're pretty much the best drills I've find to condition people for the press. That, and making sure they have proper flexibility. The other drills like the inverted leg lifts are mostly useful to condition very weak people and to give a small idea of how a press to handstand is done. As soon as you understand the press, you should be moving towards drills to learn to lift your hips over your shoulders. It can even be included in one's conditioning before the handstand is stable enough to start working on the press, so the press is a lot easier to learn when the time comes. In gymnastics, we used to do the second drill using the pommel horse and passing our legs back and forth between our arm and over the horse.

[timg]

The first drill in the video is similar to one i was shown using a swiss ball or foam barrel. Same principal, but easier because you start with your feet already raised.

For the second drill, I'm having a bit of trouble visualising it on the pommel horse.

Do you: start with hands on pommel in front support-> press hips up until feet are at top of horse -> press feet above top of horse and bring them forward and let fall to other side of horse?

Also, if thats the case do you have to bring them up to an L-sit and then lift your hips until your feet clear the horse and put them down on the side you started from?

[Joshua Naterman]

That second drill is a half press, I think, and the first one is a bit different but looks pretty decent for working on planche presses. I don't know though, I would be interested to hear Coach's thoughts on these.

[Vagabond]

Yes, it's pretty much that for the pommel horse drill. Just doing the one I showed on the counter is enough to practice lifting the hips, thought. I also know the drill with the swiss ball or the foam roller, but in my opinion they should be replaced with a harder drill as soon as you're ready, and it's important that at the end of the motion you try to lift your hips enough so that your feet lift off the ground. An error I've seen many people doing with these is also that they're just rolling, they barely use their shoulders and upper back at all and it ends up being a core exercise more than an educative to do a press. And even if you can't lift your feet yet, just trying should help developping the required strength. Same for the counter drill, the goal there is to be able to bring your feet between your hands at the end of the motion.

[Vagabond]

Joshua, you posted just when I was posting. The first drill isn't really a preparation for planche press, as planche press can be learned simply by being proficient at normal pike presses and being able to hold a very solid planche. But it is a good drill to teach students to transfer their weight forward and resist with their shoulders not to collapse before doing a press. If you go forward enough, it is even a bit harder than the lean from a pike press, but it builds extra strength which is useful to learn the press with a less than perfect technique, which will be refined by doing sets of presses later on anyways. Plus, the level of difficulty goes progressing with the student's strength. At first, the student cannot go very far, and can hardly go from pointed feet to flex feet. As the student get stronger, he or she become able to lift his/her feet.

[Joshua Naterman]

Thanks for the details!

[Mikko Saks]

Ive done also those conditioning drills (vagabonds vid), but that drill on pbars helped much more in my case at least. Still lacking the flexibilty but the movement is there.

hehe had to make it in black/white cause this was one of my goals when i started gymnastics about 2,5years ago when i was weak and overweight, so its kinda historical moment for me

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[Vagabond]

Yeah, that's also a very good drill. I don't use much p bar drills, but it's mostly because I don't have p bars, so I can't really make my people work on them.