Pull Ups - Correct Body Position?

[VeganMartin]

I can't find the answer to this on the forum and will appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

When I do pull ups (palms facing away from me) I start with my whole body hanging vertically but by the time I am in the full pull up position I am hanging rather diagonally with my feet well in advance of the rest of my body. I've looked at a few videos and have seen people who hang vertically for the full ROM and others who seem to do what I do. It's difficult to tell because all the ones I've seen are filmed from the front or back.

Is this normal or is it something to do with lack of flexibility? I am rather inflexible in the thoracic spine - if I squat down and raise my arms overhead they are at a 45 degree angle to my torso. :shock:

[Daniel Burnham]

When I do pullups I keep my body tight in a slight hollow with my neck "packed" and pull all the way to my chest while maintaining that shape. I've been doing this for about 3 weeks and have found it to be harder. I think doing pullups like this is optimal as it doesn't let you leverage yourself by bending.

I'm sure josh will give you a much more detailed answer.

[Brian Li]

Wasn't there a thread here where both Coach and Ido say that the correct and stronger pull-up is the one where your scapula should be both retracted and depressed at the top of the pull-up and the back arched as opposed to Pavel's? Joshua (moderator) has said that hollow body + necked packed pull-ups has given him new strength gains in the muscles worked and is more difficult. I'm not sure which one is better though.

[Coach Sommer]

Wasn't there a thread here where both Coach and Ido say that the correct and stronger pull-up is the one where your scapula should be both retracted and depressed at the top of the pull-up and the back arched as opposed to Pavel's? Joshua (moderator) has said that hollow body + necked packed pull-ups has given him new strength gains in the muscles worked and is more difficult. I'm not sure which one is better though.

The answer is neither. They are both very different movements that provide different training stimuli.

- Performing pullups with full retraction at the top primarily addresses mobility and scapular health issues. I prefer these as a warmup element if your base level of strength permits it. If not, perform rows that focus on full retraction and protraction.

- Performing pullups with a hollow body is much more conducive to the production of power. Notice that rope climbs and OAC are naturally performed in a hollow position.

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Joshua Naterman]

Wasn't there a thread here where both Coach and Ido say that the correct and stronger pull-up is the one where your scapula should be both retracted and depressed at the top of the pull-up and the back arched as opposed to Pavel's? Joshua (moderator) has said that hollow body + necked packed pull-ups has given him new strength gains in the muscles worked and is more difficult. I'm not sure which one is better though.

Coach beat me to the punch

It is as he says, there is no "best" way to do pull ups, you NEED both. They have different purposes and benefits, and without both you end up deficient in one or more areas because the one cannot replace the other.

Again, like Coach says... you have to start with what you can actually do. If your traps are weak, true retraction pull ups are going to be very, very difficult. Too difficult, perhaps. it is my opinion that regardless of strength levels you should always have appropriate horizontal rowing in your program and it should be biased towards rows that focus on proper retraction with good head and body position. This is difficult all by itself at first.

[Cole Dano]

Gosh, maybe I'm staring to catch on. That was just what I was thinking for a response, but Coach did say it much more succinctly than I could have.

[seiyafan]

I can't find the answer to this on the forum and will appreciate any help. Thanks in advance.

When I do pull ups (palms facing away from me) I start with my whole body hanging vertically but by the time I am in the full pull up position I am hanging rather diagonally with my feet well in advance of the rest of my body. I've looked at a few videos and have seen people who hang vertically for the full ROM and others who seem to do what I do. It's difficult to tell because all the ones I've seen are filmed from the front or back.

Is this normal or is it something to do with lack of flexibility? I am rather inflexible in the thoracic spine - if I squat down and raise my arms overhead they are at a 45 degree angle to my torso. :shock:

Can you do a pull up with bar touch your neck?

[Joshua Naterman]

VeganMartin: You may be compensating for weaker lower lats and/or lower traps. Hard to say. Try to have someone keep your feet from going too far forward and see if it is more difficult or just different. That will tell you a lot right away.

[VeganMartin]

Thanks for the responses chaps. Much food for thought.

What's a hollow? Being in a banana shape, yes?

I think I retract the scapulas when I am at the top of the pull up. I don't think I could arch my back as my thoracic spine is too tight.

I tested to see if I could do a pull up to the back of the neck. Yes, but it is more difficult and was the first time I've done one. Also felt a lot of tension in my traps and neck but that might be due to having done resistance training an hour ago.

There's no one I can ask to stop my feet going forwards. I will try to set something up in front of me that will stop my feet doing that. Perhaps a sheet of hardboard.

I don't know if it's part of the same problem but I find doing L-sit pull ups difficult. I tried one for the first time yesterday and couldn't do one. I then did a normal one but came down in an L-sit. I had to make some sort of adjustment as my arms became nearly straight at the bottom. I think it was some shift in my shoulders but am not sure.

I then tried to do another L-sit pull up and managed to do one and one only. I had to make some adjustment when I started to pull up. Not sure what - it may have been a bit of a back lean, or a bit of 'chest popping'.

Today I did about 12 over a period of 8 minutes. Mostly singles but also a couple of doubles. I could only do doubles with a narrow grip - hands about 4 inches apart. I couldn't do doubles with normal shoulder-width grip.

With the narrow-grip ones it felt as if my arms were doing all the work. And, again, there was some adjustment to my posture needed when initiating the pull. I'm still not sure what that was.

[seiyafan]

You can try bend your knees, but I would not worry much your feet position because your body naturally balances itself during pull-up.

[Joshua Naterman]

Hollow is really just a straight back, no lumbar curve and preferably a nearly straight thoracic and cervical spine. At first this tends to be a banana shape but you can be very straight and still be hollow.

If you have trouble with L sit pull ups I think a strength imbalance is behind your current pull up position, but I don't know for sure... I have a slight angle but not very much of one. Part of this is less than ideal shoulder flexion which in turn is a part of crappy t-spine mobility.

[Nic Branson]

Easy body tension test for pull up, legs straight with light ankle weights. Just enough to increase your awareness of core tension and positioning. 5-10lbs total is enough.

Dead hang get hollow and pull, you should start to feel your weaker links.

[VeganMartin]

You can try bend your knees, but I would not worry much your feet position because your body naturally balances itself during pull-up.

Yes, I think my body does this because it finds that is the best way for me - until I sort out whatever needs sorting out.

Hollow is really just a straight back, no lumbar curve and preferably a nearly straight thoracic and cervical spine. At first this tends to be a banana shape but you can be very straight and still be hollow.

I see. Then I am in a sort of hollow position becasue a spinal injury has taken away most of my lumbar curve. When I am standing up I have a slight forward lean from the hips.

If you have trouble with L sit pull ups I think a strength imbalance is behind your current pull up position, but I don't know for sure... I have a slight angle but not very much of one. Part of this is less than ideal shoulder flexion which in turn is a part of crappy t-spine mobility.

Yes, I think I'll have to increase my t-spine flexibility. And address any imbalances in the exercises I do.

Easy body tension test for pull up, legs straight with light ankle weights. Just enough to increase your awareness of core tension and positioning. 5-10lbs total is enough.

Dead hang get hollow and pull, you should start to feel your weaker links.

I'll have to wait to do that test with the ankle weights. The only time I've dangled at full stretch from a bar was a few months ago on some scaffolding near my house (since removed - the scaffolding that is, not my house). I didn't do any pull ups on it but I was hanging vertically. My pull up bar is not high enough to start from a straight hang - I have to have my knees bent slightly at the start. I intend to build a pull up and dip station in my spare bedroom. I'll be able to test it on that. But I've been intending to do it for about 4 years.

I've had a lot of good advice and will need to play around with different postures, muscle tensions and scapula positions. Thank you, everyone.

[Quick Start Test Smith]

What is the difference between pull ups with retracted scapula and pull ups with hollow body? I always focus on tightening my trunk into hollow position for chin ups but I also retract my shoulder blades as much as I can, too. Not sure which one that would be, though. If someone could direct me to contrasting pictures/videos I would appreciate it.