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Zac Rhyne

Tumbling

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Zac Rhyne

Deadlifts, tumbling?

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yuri marmerstein

strengthening the posterior chain will definitely help your tumbling.

In my experience, kettlebell swings have the best carryover into tumbling as deadlifts can take a while to recover from

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Cole Dano

Interesting Yuri. Good point about recovery, assistance work shouldn't leave one tapped out.

Do you have any experience with Olympic Lifting? Any carryover there?

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Blairbob

Deadlifts, KB swings, Back Squats, Step-Ups. It's all good stuff. It's all better than just doing SLS and lunges or deck squats. It's just not the same thing. Sure you can start adding weights to them but I still don't think they are as good. However, even the olympic lifts don't generate the same forces that tumbling and sprinting do.

45reps x315. That's some serious volume, there. 315x15 is a nice strong DL.

The thing is lifting a 10 or 15rm is much easier to recover than lifting a 3 or 5rm 3x/week. KB would be easier to recover from since you are just dealing with a high rep volume approach even if you are swinging a 2 pood.

Use of the strength lifts and Olympic lifts and their carryover to vaulting and tumbling has been debated about here and PerformanceMenu to no end.

A lot of Women's collegiate programs will program in the strength lifts (not sure about the olympic lifts) and I have known of a few National ranked women's gymnastics club that worked in barbell lifting or olympic lifts. Do a google and you should come across an article by a NSCA coach who used the olympic lifts who used it for their spouse's gymnastic club and athletes. I have a friend who did it for her daughter's club in Norcal (though I don't think they had any National gymnasts) and found it beneficial.

To note, I haven't heard of any of the Men's collegiate programs spending time in the weight room. I don't think it's caught on really. My friend in the Ukraine said it was done and the Chinese do it, but that is probably only at the National level.

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Nic Branson

Some nice volume there, good strength base. If you liked the three week cycle there I would recommend following that cycle with a week or two of KB swings for recovery and increased dynamic movement. While not a fan of straps I applaud the double overhand, keep that aspect.

Could do two DL sessions a week and one swing session. You obviously responded well to them and they don't seem to have killed your recovery. As was said I would not drop the reps unless you know it's light as that would definitely tax the system a bit much.

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yuri marmerstein
Interesting Yuri. Good point about recovery, assistance work shouldn't leave one tapped out.

Do you have any experience with Olympic Lifting? Any carryover there?

Yes, there is carryover, but remember that tumbling is largely skill work. O-lifting takes a lot of time to perfect the technique and in the time spent to learn that you could have applied the same efforts to improving your tumbling if that's the goal.

I like kettlebell swings because they are a lot easier to do, learn, and apply. Most lifters who practice O-lifts but are not olympic lifters don't use proper hip extension in their O-lifts anyway so swings are a better variant.

But of course it all depends on your goals and priorities.

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Nic Branson

Goes the other way to, most people who do KB-swings don't get their hips into the lift properly either.

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Zac Rhyne

Extend.

 

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Joshua Naterman

That is interesting and makes sense to me. By strengthening the back handspring shape you should be strengthening all movements that use that shape, handsprings included. This has also made me realize, completely separately, why HLL are a really fantastic exercise... they train the "pull" for tucks very specifically, as long as you actually perform the movement with your core and not with the arms. Strengthening the shape of movements and using that shape in subsequent, more complicated movements that rely on the same shape (one progression would be hollow hold, push ups, pull ups, dips, FL, PPP, MU, FL pulls, front pulls, yewkis) while keeping the shape perfectly during the movement (that is the key) is what determines whether your conditioning program will actually give you the long term progress that it looks like it should on paper.

Side note: Our deadlifts are nearly identical... how crazy. Not anymore, I mean I probably don't have more than 405x6 right now, I haven't deadlifted seriously since I started here. But back when I was actually practicing the movement regularly this was true. I also felt like it had a huge carryover to a lot of gymnastics work, especially back lever. I pretty much had that from the beginning. Did you notice anything similar?

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Nic Branson

Think neural sequencing and activation Josh.

You guy are making me want to DL again. Hit triple body weight when I was competing and stopped. Haven't touched a heavy bar in quite awhile now. Nothing more then a couple heavy kb's.

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Joshua Naterman
Think neural sequencing and activation Josh.

You guy are making me want to DL again. Hit triple body weight when I was competing and stopped. Haven't touched a heavy bar in quite awhile now. Nothing more then a couple heavy kb's.

That's a great way to define it! That is pretty much what I am thinking, and I have noticed that spinal posture is very important in this. Without the hollow shape and packed neck I was pretty much wasting a lot of my efforts. I wish I knew about this before I had such serious shoulder issues.

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Cole Dano

In terms of dynamically applied arch body shape don't forget Chest Roll to HeS/HS.

Another interesting aspect of shape, is dynamically moving from one to another to produce force or rotation. Simple taps swings are a nice way to work that for higher reps.

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Joshua Naterman
In terms of dynamically applied arch body shape don't forget Chest Roll to HeS/HS.

Another interesting aspect of shape, is dynamically moving from one to another to produce force or rotation. Simple taps swings are a nice way to work that for higher reps.

Absolutely. I am not currently giving arch shape as much time as hollow shape. That will be corrected :) I do go from arch to hollow in body levers these days, pretty tough to do while staying more or less horizontal. I was just listing a hollow progression to sort of illustrate how developing strength in the beginning elements with a hollow leads to much greater strength in other elements when keeping the hollow and adding more complex/difficult movement, as a sort of easy to understand representation of how to build strength around a shape in a progressive manner. It seems like this is exactly what happens as you go through the gymnastic levels.

I need to practice my tap swing, I distinctly remember immediately realizing, just from doing about 10 reps, that gymnasts must have absolutely ridiculous hand strength. There is no way I could do a giant without immediately peeling off the bar right now, even hard taps feel pretty tough.

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mikelmarion

Soo... What shape is best for the deadlift?

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Nic Branson
Soo... What shape is best for the deadlift?

What are you dead lifting for? Second experienced lifter or not?

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Blairbob

Well, you can just do snatch/clean pulls instead of the conventional DL.

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