shoulder strengthening question

[Ryan Richter]

I know there have been a few post on this topic, but i haven’t found all the questions i have for this topic and was hoping for some clarification and hopefully a few nuggets. As the topic states i am looking for ways to strengthen my shoulders without over doing it and the majority of the information i got on the topic is off this post:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7871&p=70310&hilit=strengthen+shoulders#p70310

It was a great topic with alot of good information, i am doing ido's shoulder and scapula pre-hab, hand stand work and frog stand/ adv tuck work. i just found slizzards shoulder rehab and started using that as well.

This is where my question comes in, what else can you do to help build the shoulders up? is there a ring or PB exercise that i can add in to my routine? in the post Blairbob mentioned using DB's and BW on light days, what in particular do you do? i currently tried going to the gym and hitting the weights due to snow and lack of places to use my rings, but found i got weaker during my month in the gym which blew my mind considering the weight i was putting up.

i also want to clear up, that i dont do all of this in one day and am trying to keep to the killroy style with the additional ring day. The pre-hab, i have only been doing 2-3 times a week. But i really want to turn my shoulders into a strong point for myself instead of one of my weaker. i have always had to worry about them since i was little due to being a pitcher in baseball and injuring it and probably have babied them due to not wanting to even have to go through that again.

Also i forgot to ask, in the killroy workout, is there particular days were you would recommend adding the shoulders in? What i am trying to do is in the off days (wed & sun) i use as stretching days, ether a yoga class or my own routine. i am deployed at the moment so i have the time and ability to split the workouts into morning and evening and am open to whatever you all have for me. Thank you all for your time!

[Blairbob]

Are you referring to movements that make your shoulders stronger (push-ups, pullups, dips, rows) or mobility related stuff like theraband, using DB for mobility/strength, and stretching?

[Ryan Richter]

Are you referring to movements that make your shoulders stronger (push-ups, pullups, dips, rows) or mobility related stuff like theraband, using DB for mobility/strength, and stretching?

Movements to make them stronger are the area i am working at the moment and my main focus for the topic. i am open to both though, you can never have too much knowledge on mobility.

the end goal is to make my shoulders as strong as possible to handle the demands that these movements will put on them, but i need something more focused on the shoulders to help even out my arm strength. Through doing my routine and WOD’s i have uncovered that my weak points are my lower back and shoulders. i know at 6'6" 220, it is putting a large amount of strain on those two areas in both levers and planche. i am currently doing lesser versions to help with the building process and not exceeding the abilities of my weakest muscle, but my mind set has always been to turn my weakness into my strength and am just trying to figure it out. Since this is still a little new to me, i need a little help with making sure i am not missing any of the exercises that are the best for this.

[Cole Dano]

This is a huge topic. There are numerous ideas scattered around the forum, so keep looking around and start asking more focused questions.

One thing came to mind reading your last post. I was never a pitcher, but yoga pretty well over loosened my shoulders and i did essential zero pulling.

One of the most important things that i found to get the shoulders to work properly for pulling were hanging shrugs. In fact shrugs in as many directions as possible can be a great warm up for a session.

You can do them all or just the planes that relate to the work you are about to do.

Some Shrug Positons

Hanging

Support

Prone

Inverted

Lateral One arm

Rev Prone

Another unsung hero of shoulder stabilization is the ring support. It's one of those positions that people will try to blow past thinking it's too simple, don't make that mistake. I know of nothing more effective for teaching the rotator cuff and scapular stabilizers to engage in a coordinated manner to support the weight of the body. Again working supports in many directions will help with general stabilization.

In the beginning start with prone then to upright and as you are comfortable with it to handstand.

[Nyikhaj]

I've had great results in shoulder strength (and form) doing wall handstands. Once a week I do some HSPU variation (box HSPU :oops: ) or some Bulgarian dips mixed with wider grip Korean dips (supported legs :oops: ). I try not to overuse my rotator cuffs . I always put in some pullups (and sometimes rowing for balance and well-being ).

Nowadays i'm trying some wall runs and it's very-very tough with 280.

[Ryan Richter]

This is a huge topic. There are numerous ideas scattered around the forum, so keep looking around and start asking more focused questions.

One thing came to mind reading your last post. I was never a pitcher, but yoga pretty well over loosened my shoulders and i did essential zero pulling.

this can become a huge topic, but i am looking for something more specific then everything shoulders, more the things that arent in the book or traditional like your shrug idea or like with my back adding kb swings. i think as for the main workouts that the book has to offer i am doing all i can to the current strength level i am at, though yes i still might be over looking something. i like the idea of shrugs on the rings, i will try it out and see how it works.

I've had great results in shoulder strength (and form) doing wall handstands. Once a week I do some HSPU variation (box HSPU :oops: ) or some Bulgarian dips mixed with wider grip Korean dips (supported legs :oops: ). I try not to overuse my rotator cuffs . I always put in some pullups (and sometimes rowing for balance and well-being ).

Nowadays i'm trying some wall runs and it's very-very tough with 280.

i am doing a good amount of handstand work and am working on my Korean dips unsupported, still cant figure out how to push my butt forward of the bar on the way up. hspu i am still working to get full RM. ya wall runs kick my butt at 220, but keep at it, it took me a month before i could get it down enough to not fall over every other movement. now i can go for 2-3 min straight only three months later working it once a week or so.

[Ryan Richter]

any one? if i am doing all i can, thats fine. i just saw a few things on post that didnt get specific and was hoping that i could find out what it was. thank you guys

[Cole Dano]

I think you need to get more specific in your question as well.

There have been so many posts on this topic, i don't think anyone wants to start from scratch in answering. You're going to have to do some homework and narrow the focus of the question giving some more relevant personal details as well.

I'm not even sure in your reply to my post if you were saying it was too traditional or if it was of some help.

[Ryan Richter]

I think you need to get more specific in your question as well.

There have been so many posts on this topic, i don't think anyone wants to start from scratch in answering. You're going to have to do some homework and narrow the focus of the question giving some more relevant personal details as well.

I'm not even sure in your reply to my post if you were saying it was too traditional or if it was of some help.

I am sorry to have confused you with that post, yes I thought that the shrugs where a great idea and something that I had given up on in the weight room because they didn’t help even when I shrugged 100lbs in each hand. I wouldn’t have thought to do shrugs in all those positions and I actually found a post from coach on the topic in a random place when I searched for more info after you told me about it. I think this will really help me a lot.

I honestly don’t know how to make the post more specific, but I will give it one more shot:

I am looking to put together a work out focused on strengthening my shoulders. I understand the movements and statics in my strength range in the book, but I saw were blairbob mentioned a KB work out, maybe I miss understand and it is for mobility and not strength but I was hoping to find out what that was and if there is any other work that can be done (like the shoulder shrugs) to help shoulder strength. I am just looking for different recommendations and ideas because I don’t always have the ability to set my rings up, a place for my pb or sometimes even a wall for supported hs but normally have at least one of them available. so with a little creativity and some guidance I am hoping to go as far as possible with the time I have. It is not ideal, but nothing in afghan is you just have to make do with what you got and press on.

if this is still too vague, I apologize for wasting all your time. thank you to everyone who has posted, I appreciate all your great input and I always learn a lot from you all and I look forward to learning more.

[n00man]

maybe just be more specific about the word "strengthen" ?

as someone who has shoulder problems myself ( age & years of volleyball ),

i also want to keep my shoulders "strong", cuz if i slack off,

my muscles tend to deteriorate and pain starts visiting during the night

i've found slizz' YTI exercises to be extremely helpful on strengthening the stabilizers around the rotator cuff.

ring supports and deadhangs seem to help with stabilizing and strengthening as well.

carefully going deep & slow in various dips and pushups has been great for my mobility.

those "lie on a bench with a 1lb db and adduct/abduct/rotate" exercises also helped, but that's kinda oldschool, lol.

handstands and multiplane shrugs feel like "big" muscle movements for me, but i'm sure it's all helping.

especially helpful (to me) for these last two, was to really try to "feel" the muscles working,

almost like doing sets of "clenches" then relaxing, to get the full range of motion of the shoulder itself under load.

not sure if all that will make sense, and it's my first post after lurking for months,

but shoulders are a key point for me too. i want them to feel good, look good, and be strong.

[Cole Dano]

Ace your not wasting anyone's time, no worries.

Some idea's -

Kettlebells and IEDs -

Since you mentions kettlebells, they are very well suited for conditioning work, HIIT in particular. However you don't need a kettlebell to do kettlebell exercises. For the basic swing really anything you can hold on to and swing between your legs will do. Do duffel bag for example can be turned into a great work out tool. If you are creative you can come up with many of these IED's (Improvised Exercise Devices)

A great KB strength exercise is the Turkish Get Up, and it is excellent for the shoulders. And again can be done with anything you can hold over head.

Strand Pulling -

Bands are an amazing and extremely portable tool. They don't have to be confined to prehab. In fact strand-pulling actually pre-dates weight lifting, largely because bands are so light and easy to transport. At one time it was actually a competitive sport, much like weightlifting.

The absolute simplest is the JumpStretch style band, but there are better set ups with handles. If this is of interest i can provide you with more details of what's out there via PM.

On my blog i host a couple of great guides just because i want to help get the word out about this. For guys in the military, who don't have gym access etc i don't think there is anything better.

http://yoga-horizons.com/2011/04/strand ... brad-reid/

Light and Heavy Clubs -

One very interesting style of shoulder strength work is often referred to as 'circular training' The latest incarnation of this is club bells. However this is a very very old style of strength training, most likely the oldest. It originated in Pakistan and is still practiced in Iran, Pakistan and India. The heavy clubs are huge, but there is also the mace aka gada) which can be easily made with some concrete and a pole.

In all it forms it's an excellent way to strengthen the shoulders, and at least i think it's fun.

Not sure if it's something you can find in Afgan, but in Iran and Persia the clubs are called Meels and the training style Pahlavani

some info - http://www.pahlavani.com/ish/html/ph/new/meel.htm

here's my friend Paul showing both, his YouTube clips are a great resource.

UQQ6HK4U9TI

overview of Pahlavani

2pE0ha30_70

None of this is really new, but in modern times it's pretty out of the box, and very effective.