lower back issues

[Ryan Richter]

so to start i am 6'6", during my routine (killroy) i have been noticing a trend of my lower back giving way. this is in the handstand and extended planks (arms straight above the head plank hold on the rings). i know coaches lower back work and can do them all except youngs and did wall RLL 4 sets of 5 but havent found a way to get weights on my feet out here in the desert which limits things. what i am trying to find out is if there is some other exercises to help strengthen the lower back or if that is more a technique issue.

i know there are alot of holes, i wish i could send a video or something but it is not possible from where i am. let me know if there is anything i can give to help you understand my issue better. thank you.

[Blairbob]

Do you have the book? Look at the chapter on straight body pulling and lower back exercises.

Considering your height, it makes sense that lower back strength is a weakness. You just have a length to cover.

Another is to scale the RLL to HS from HeS by using a bent arm HS against the wall. Sometimes the bent arm HS is difficult to hold so I have also played with doing it so your head is on something. In the gym, I've used mats to do this. Maybe stack more pillows or books.

[Ryan Richter]

Do you have the book? Look at the chapter on straight body pulling and lower back exercises.

Considering your height, it makes sense that lower back strength is a weakness. You just have a length to cover.

Another is to scale the RLL to HS from HeS by using a bent arm HS against the wall. Sometimes the bent arm HS is difficult to hold so I have also played with doing it so your head is on something. In the gym, I've used mats to do this. Maybe stack more pillows or books.

i know that the height would come with its own unique challenges and its funny because i always thought i had a pretty strong back. these exercises are starting to prove me wrong, which is good because it provideds me with my first true challange that i have to over come that isnt just getting the technique of it. more like getting my whole body on an even playing field.

yes i do have the book and have been using it pretty extensivly. i have been doing the back work and straight body pulls in my work out as well as hollow holds and reverse hollow holds. i cant do all the back work due to lack of equipment, the wall it the best thing i have at the moment. military gyms overseas are hit or miss with what they got and some times isnt the best stuff when they do.

with the HS RLL, is it just adjusting the leverage to increase the difficulty and playing with that and the possition your arms are in? or is it more ROM that makes it more difficult? also which straight body pull did you have in mind that would help with my current issue? i was under the impression that you need you lower back activated while doing them but it wasnt lower back specific. thank you again for all your help.

[Blairbob]

Well, I have no idea which straight body pull you are working.

Virtually any done with a straight back work. Body lever for instance. Needs to be done in Adv Tuck/Flat back tuck.

with the HS RLL, is it just adjusting the leverage to increase the difficulty and playing with that and the possition your arms are in? or is it more ROM that makes it more difficult?

That's basically it. Once you are doing it in HS, there is more load on the body since you're at a disadvantage leverage wise.

The tricky thing about BentArmHS is some people aren't really able to hold themselves up with bent arms while performing the inverted leg lift. This is where I would elevate the head from the floor while the hands are still on the floor. Easily done in a gymnastics gym with a panel mat. Without one you'll have to rig something up.

[Ryan Richter]

Well, I have no idea which straight body pull you are working.

Virtually any done with a straight back work. Body lever for instance. Needs to be done in Adv Tuck/Flat back tuck.

levers, i am able to do a full BL but working halfs due to the back and can only hold a full for 4-8 sec. FL i am working flat tuck and horizontal FL pulls i am working flat tuck also.

should i hold back until my back catches up or is this normal when getting to a new stage in the progression and will work itself out? and i tried the HeS RLL, those will be fun to play with and give me something to work with since i could only do 4 set of 3-4, mostly because i have to get use to doing HeS again. thank you again for all your help.

[Joshua Naterman]

Try using decline benches or a bench and the smith machine bar with lots of weight on it (as a heel anchor) for NLC and GHR variants. You can also try deadlifts... I came in with a pretty strong deadlift (505 for a double and 405 for sets of 10-12 reps straight leg DL) and pretty much had a BL from day 1.

Don't be scared by the numbers I posted, you don't need that. Just saying that I didn't even feel it, so obviously that strength carried over. If you can't do arch ups, which are also awesome, these two suggestions are probably your best bet.

No one really does this next bit, but it is a piece of Naterman Gold: Just do your arch ups in a GHR position. Seriously. Hook your heels on something padded and immovable (for your purposes), pad your knees with folded towels (works best in my experience and I've tried everything from roofing knee pads to high density foam on a variety of surfaces, and the towels were best in all cases), and keep your knees at the 90-ish degree mark and perform arch ups as well as back extensions.

I also highly, highly suggest the undulating motions of gyrotonics. You will immediately feel the small intervertebral muscles working and getting tired quickly, and these may be preventing you from using your spinal extensors to their full potential. You don't need any machines, just copy the motions.

I have found that very, very slow motions for the undulations are the best way to work these inner muscles.

Dillon Zrike originally introduced me to gyrotonics and I have only recently begun to apply the movements. I am proportionally very weak in these muscles, which is probably an inhibitory mechanism that affects a number of other movements.

[Ryan Richter]

Try using decline benches or a bench and the smith machine bar with lots of weight on it (as a heel anchor) for NLC and GHR variants. You can also try deadlifts... I came in with a pretty strong deadlift (505 for a double and 405 for sets of 10-12 reps straight leg DL) and pretty much had a BL from day 1.

I also highly, highly suggest the undulating motions of gyrotonics. You will immediately feel the small intervertebral muscles working and getting tired quickly, and these may be preventing you from using your spinal extensors to their full potential. You don't need any machines, just copy the motions.

I have found that very, very slow motions for the undulations are the best way to work these inner muscles.

Dillon Zrike originally introduced me to gyrotonics and I have only recently begun to apply the movements. I am proportionally very weak in these muscles, which is probably an inhibitory mechanism that affects a number of other movements.

i do deadlifts as well,i have been apart of crossfit for the last 6 years. i never tried for big numbers when it came to my back because i never wanted to hurt it, but i put up 420ish for 3-5 reps and did 225 for longer workouts (never straight legged though), which is why i said that i always thought i had a pretty strong back. i can do arch ups and everything up to RLL, i just dont have the equipment to do them on. i really wish we had a GHR chair here, but only have seen one in country.

i am not following your piece of gold. are you talking about laying almost flat and doing arch ups or starting straight up and down and doing a motion similair to a half GHR? it sounds to me like you are referring to doing this on the floor, or are you talking about the decline bench as well?

also do you have any more info on the gyrotonics? Google wasnt as helpful has i would have hoped. but thank you so much for sharing this with me, i have never even heard of gyrotonics before but it does sound like something that could be very beneficial.

[Blairbob]

I went through a few pages of hits on Google regarding gyrotonics and found these two pages. There also seem to be a score of videos on youtube about it. While the system has it's unique tower that seems to have evolved from the ones used in pilates, it's more complicated than that.

http://life.gaiam.com/article/gyrotonic-exercise-outside-lines

http://www.self.com/health/blogs/healthyself/2011/03/gyrotonics-the-at-home-workout.html

I might go through the videos later when I can watch them at 240p. I'm thinking you can probably do a crude version with some theraband or exercise bands.

[Joshua Naterman]

Try using decline benches or a bench and the smith machine bar with lots of weight on it (as a heel anchor) for NLC and GHR variants. You can also try deadlifts... I came in with a pretty strong deadlift (505 for a double and 405 for sets of 10-12 reps straight leg DL) and pretty much had a BL from day 1.

I also highly, highly suggest the undulating motions of gyrotonics. You will immediately feel the small intervertebral muscles working and getting tired quickly, and these may be preventing you from using your spinal extensors to their full potential. You don't need any machines, just copy the motions.

I have found that very, very slow motions for the undulations are the best way to work these inner muscles.

Dillon Zrike originally introduced me to gyrotonics and I have only recently begun to apply the movements. I am proportionally very weak in these muscles, which is probably an inhibitory mechanism that affects a number of other movements.

i do deadlifts as well,i have been apart of crossfit for the last 6 years. i never tried for big numbers when it came to my back because i never wanted to hurt it, but i put up 420ish for 3-5 reps and did 225 for longer workouts (never straight legged though), which is why i said that i always thought i had a pretty strong back. i can do arch ups and everything up to RLL, i just dont have the equipment to do them on. i really wish we had a GHR chair here, but only have seen one in country.

i am not following your piece of gold. are you talking about laying almost flat and doing arch ups or starting straight up and down and doing a motion similair to a half GHR? it sounds to me like you are referring to doing this on the floor, or are you talking about the decline bench as well?

also do you have any more info on the gyrotonics? Google wasnt as helpful has i would have hoped. but thank you so much for sharing this with me, i have never even heard of gyrotonics before but it does sound like something that could be very beneficial.

Interesting. Straight leg deadlifts will help a lot, they are very different. I always did both because I liked how they both felt, and I was always stronger than the other people these two movements so I enjoyed them a bit just because of that. I did feel that the straight leg version (or with very slightly bent knees) was much more useful in terms of sprint speed development and probably did a lot more for my back lever as well.

What I was referring to was performing arch ups in a GHR position. I was trying to describe different schemes by which you could rig the equipment you DO have to function in place of what you DON'T have.

You can also use the weight benches you have as a back extension apparatus for arch ups and back extensions. You'll need one heavy bar with at least your bodyweight on it and you will also need one or both of your rings. What you do is this: use the ring straps as an anchor. You put the bar inside the loop, load weight on it so you can't lift it off the ground (your bodyweight should be enough at first) andplace the weight bench parallel to the bar a few feet in front of it. Now stick your ankles into the strap loops. You will have to adjust them so they are only 12-24" long with your feet inside, but what this does is it allows you to perform horizontal back extension work. It won't be full ROM unless you have a super tall bench, but that is ok. The top part of the ROM is the important bit anyways, at least for your purposes right now. You then position your hips or pelvis so that they are right at the edge of the bench with your upper thighs supported and heels held in place by the ring straps, which are attached to the bar. Boom, ghetto back extensions. You can even make two loops out of rope, tie-downs, chain, dip belts, regular belts, whatever and do the same thing with the bar and your heels. This will allow you to work the back extensions and arch ups. You need to get pretty strong with these, don't be afraid to add weight.

Blair: The essence of gyrotonics is the bi-planar and tri-planar movement of the spine. You can do this in a standing straddle or seated on a bench, or even in a regular chair. No bands or other equipment required. Sure, they have all kinds of cool stuff that opens new exercise options, but the basics are right here for free, unless someone has left their vertebral column at home on accident!