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Ian Legrow

TWO-A-DAYS

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Ian Legrow

Hey everyone,

There was an article talking about two a day training. I read the article and was intrigued, but am wondering if it will be more beneficial then SSC training, and how to do it with gymnastics training.

thanks in advance

-Ian

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Philip Chubb

I do it instead of SSC. You have to be okay with taking a bit of risk and pushing through some fatigue at times though. There is a lot of information out there on it. Since I am a strength athlete, I like to do very intense methods in my morning sessions so 1-3 reps. Then later I'll lower the progressions so they're not as hard but still difficult, and do 4-6 reps of movements. That's one of the basic strength ways and it has been almost wrong how the strength gains have been coming in for me.

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Ian Legrow

HMMMMMMM!!! Interesting! Since the four day weekend is coming, i will have to try this! maybe I will have to start waking up early if i enjoy doing it! When you say really intense, does that include the FSP? If so, how do you do that?

Thanks again Philip!

-Ian

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Philip Chubb

No problem my friend! Okay I will do an example of FSP for you. In the morning, I will get warmed up and do several sets of 10 second straddle planches and front lever holds. They are intense with small volume because it's only 10 seconds. Then later, I will up the volume and do 25 second holds of Adv Tuck Planche and Adv FL.

The key thing to watch out for is make sure you start out small. Two 20 minute sessions and work up. With BW conditioning, you also have to watch your joints. The above example is just one I made up. I don't actually do much FSP work in favor of dynamic movements. That is more just an example of a very basic form of two a day training.

Now if you have four days in a training week, you might do two a day on Day1 and Day3. And one training session on Day2 and Day4. Without knowing you well, I don't know how well your recovery is in order. As I started adding on volume, I would do things to recover like take naps in the middle of the day, BCAA ect and then start to remove them once my body got used to it. There's a lot that goes into it but I am always happy to help.

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Ian Legrow

This will be very fun to try. My body recovers by the next day usually. I train every other day just to be safe. the only times it has not recovered propersly is if i do not get enough sleep, and on those day i don't train. But i could do with with HS and by daily traning and it will help me progress faster! So excited!

thanks again!

-Ian :D

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Philip Chubb

No problem. I like to do it with handstands too. Two sessions instead of one. Keeps the form better. Keep up the good recovery. Good training to you, Ian!

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Joshua Naterman

Yes, the more often you can train without causing injury or overtraining the better your results will be.

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Eddie Stelling
Now if you have four days in a training week, you might do two a day on Day1 and Day3. And one training session on Day2 and Day4.

Phillip, a couple quick questions for you, if you were doing this for FSP training as described in your example and in the quote above, would Day 2 & 4 (the single training session days) be several sets of 10s straddle PL & FL holds, or sets of 25s Adv. Tuck PL & FL holds? (I know you made it up but was curious what the work would be like on the 1 session days)

If you do this for FBEs or weight/power lifting, would you do the same movements every training? I understand doing the FSPs 4 days a week but say you were doing full ROM HSPU in the AM and HeSPU in PM, would you train HSPU/HeSPU 4 days/wk (same pattern of two-a-days on Day 1 & 3, one-a-day on Day 2 & 4)? Hard, to word, I am sorry! Just confused on whether or not you hit it every day you train, every other day, twice a wk... let me know if I am unclear.

Thank you in advance and thanks to you for elaborating and IJL for sharing this little Jewel!

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Philip Chubb
Now if you have four days in a training week, you might do two a day on Day1 and Day3. And one training session on Day2 and Day4.

Phillip, a couple quick questions for you, if you were doing this for FSP training as described in your example and in the quote above, would Day 2 & 4 (the single training session days) be several sets of 10s straddle PL & FL holds, or sets of 25s Adv. Tuck PL & FL holds? (I know you made it up but was curious what the work would be like on the 1 session days)

If you do this for FBEs or weight/power lifting, would you do the same movements every training? I understand doing the FSPs 4 days a week but say you were doing full ROM HSPU in the AM and HeSPU in PM, would you train HSPU/HeSPU 4 days/wk (same pattern of two-a-days on Day 1 & 3, one-a-day on Day 2 & 4)? Hard, to word, I am sorry! Just confused on whether or not you hit it every day you train, every other day, twice a wk... let me know if I am unclear.

Thank you in advance and thanks to you for elaborating and IJL for sharing this little Jewel!

Always happy to help. I'll go in order.

On day 2 and 4 of my example, that would depend. First and foremost, is it safe? To some people, a ten second straddle PL is dangerous. And to other 25 adv tuck is. Or maybe both are. So that is a big part of the decision. Next, is what type of phase am I in? Is it intensification where I am looking to get stronger and hit new levels? Then I go with the more intense one (Straddle Pl). Is it accumulation where I am looking to add on volume? Then I go with the 25 second one. For beginners though who aren't alternating phases and are on linear progression, something closer to a SSC is more safe and still gets gains. That's the long answer which I hope helps. The short and sweet one is it depends. :mrgreen:

I don't use the exact same movements but yes they are similar just like you posted. For example, pushups and dips have a nice carryover effect. So in the morning 6 sets of 3 straddle planche pushups. Then at night 8 sets of 6 RTO dips. That is day one and for upperbody pushing. I would probably be using supersets to do pushing and pulling all on day one. Day two could be legs+FSP. So whichever FSP plus leg work.

It is a bit more complicated to do it that way and obviously the upper body is going to get more volume in that example plan. It is just an example of someone who is getting into two a days. Someone who is already there might do something light two Monday, Tuesday, Thurs and Friday. Wednesday and Saturday are deload days with only one session. Sunday is a rest day with foam rolling. That is my personal schedule.

Did that help? I am more than happy to explain more.

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Samuel Carr

Here's the referenced article: http://www.charlespoliquin.com/Articles ... ccess.aspx

Is it possible to do 2-a-day wods? I was thinking maybe you could do the regular posted wod in the morning for the intense strength based workout and then later in the day do the same wod but alter it so that its less strength based and instead is more for hypertrophy/volume by doing easier exercises at 8-10 reps. And maybe use PHILIP's fsp routine by shorter holds in the morning and longer/easier holds at night. But then would you do all 6 fsp's in both sessions or do 3 in the morning and 3 at night and alternate them every other workout?

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Ian Legrow

I think the WOD idea is a good one. Personally i can't do that yet becasue i have to scale those things so drastically as it is, that in the evening I wouldn't be doing much.

AS for your latter question, i would say you would have to do all the FSP's you can both times. This is part of the reason i asked at the beginning of the post becasue I do work 45 hours a week and this workout is for someone with a free schedule, so will it be something i am willing to wake up at 5am for? We will see.

But when i do mine, i am basically going to take my SSC and for three days a week, "double my workout", so to speak, in the mornings from what I was doing before i started the two-a-days, and cutting it in half at night.

That might be confusing, i feel like im rambling. So if my whole workout before the two-a-days was:

3x18s bL TUCk

push up 3x3

dip 3x3

pull up 3x3

hll: 3x3

for my Two a day workouts i would do AM:

bl. adv Tuck: 3x8s

Russian dip: 3x1-3

l-sit chin up: 3x1-3

Hll V to L: 3x1-3

and pm:

german hang 3x25s

Jumping dips: 3x6-8

Jumping Pull ups: 3x6-8

Hll knees bent: 3x6-8

Sorr for all the talking. this is not my actualy workout, but its the best quick example i can come up with. It all really depends on what you want to do. Philip suggested maybe doing FSP with legs instead of doing it every time. I think its something you need to do a little trial and error with, like creatign a new SSC.

DO i have this right? If not someone please correct me

hope i helped a little

-Ian :D

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Blairbob
Is it possible to do 2-a-day wods? I was thinking maybe you could do the regular posted wod in the morning for the intense strength based workout and then later in the day do the same wod but alter it so that its less strength based and instead is more for hypertrophy/volume by doing easier exercises at 8-10 reps.

There are plenty of people I know of in CF that split their programming into strength workouts and metcon stuff per day, especially if they are coaches. It can be done if you have the time and desire.

I used to split up my guys FSP work into early in their workout and their FBE stuff and conditioning into the latter part of their workout. Bare in mind, their workout was 3 hours long so roughly 2-3x longer than most of the people on this forum's workout. Quite often they would get their FSP work done after HS work and pressing and go on their snacktime.

It was very doable and allowed them some rest between and of course wasn't one long block. I also had certain boys who would only train 90 minutes or 120 minutes so this allowed them to get some strength training in compared to when I would do it as one big block. It was sort of a pain to incorporate lower body work for those boys who did not train for the full workout but still was somewhat doable.

Of course you need to have some decent recovery ability to do 2 a days.

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Philip Chubb

I actually used to do 2 a day WODs. You look at the WOD, figure out if it's max strength or volume, and do the max strength in the morning with volume coming 4 to 6 hours later in the evening. Works well for ring days. Leg days can be the same of can be strength then HIIT 4 to 6 hour later. Or aerobics...if you're into that. The dynamic days (days with four rounds) usually went second. It worked well and I saw great gains.

All in all, start small and watch your recovery both physical and nervous system. Don't get too paralyzed by analysis gentlemen.

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John Sapinoso

Of course you need to have some decent recovery ability to do 2 a days.

This capacity can of course can be trained and improved.

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Samuel Carr

But what about the fsp's? Should these be split up between the workouts at equal intensities or should they just be scaled back further to allow for greater volume?

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Philip Chubb

I am going to say if you have to ask, then for safety, you should probably just stick the fsp in the first workout as your SSC warmup like normal.

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Joshua Naterman
I actually used to do 2 a day WODs. You look at the WOD, figure out if it's max strength or volume, and do the max strength in the morning with volume coming 4 to 6 hours later in the evening. Works well for ring days. Leg days can be the same of can be strength then HIIT 4 to 6 hour later. Or aerobics...if you're into that. The dynamic days (days with four rounds) usually went second. It worked well and I saw great gains.

All in all, start small and watch your recovery both physical and nervous system. Don't get too paralyzed by analysis gentlemen.

Yes, just go ahead and break this down to the basics guys!

Strength in the first session, volume for the second. You always want to be the most fresh for your pure strength work. You should never be worn out at the end of a strength session, you should feel like you could do it over again. The volume session is the one where it is ok to feel a bit tired at the end.

You can not ask how many sets you should do, that is not a fair question. In the beginning you should probably do 1-2 sets of each exercise, probably 1, for each session and see how you feel. Then you would add a second set after a session or two and see how you feel again. As time passes your body will be able to benefit from a bit more volume but there will always be a "sweet spot" that will be different from person to person. That is true of anything.

As for the FSP question, first off I agree with Philip... if you have to ask, you should not be using two different intensities of the FSP. For those of you who have a better idea of what this means, keep this in mind: I have, for a long time now, recommended that people who are ready for actual FSP work (people who have completed the pre-requisites) have one day per week where the FSP are treated as strength work, using 3-5 sets of a harder variation for <10s holds. If you have not completed the pre-requisites, you can try using this method with the pre-requisites as well but do not move on to actual FSP work until you have completed them exactly as specified.

Philip is an advanced athlete. Since he can hold 10+s straddle planche his body is basically strong enough for full planche training once a week right now. When you are in that position you can do 2x per week strength work on your FSP with the kind of volume Philip is using and not get hurt, but right now most of us are not in that position.

Knowing that, I will suggest this: if you can not yet hold a 10s straddle planche you should probably limit your strength-style FSP training to 1 day per week and keep your SSC going the rest of the time. Fulfill your 45-60s advanced tuck variation requirement before you even think about trying to do 2x per week strength style FSP work with the straight arm stuff. For the non-straight arm FSP I will just say that if you can not hold a perfect position you should not try to train the position at ALL, not even for 5s.

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Philip Chubb

Thank you, Sliz. That was the most basic explanation you can ask for. Anything more than that would be into asking for training.

Philip is an advanced athlete. Since he can hold 10+s straddle planche his body is basically strong enough for full planche training once a week right now. When you are in that position you can do 2x per week strength work on your FSP with the kind of volume Philip is using and not get hurt, but right now most of us are not in that position.

Once again, thank you! :mrgreen:

It's only that way from taking it slow enough to not get injured (much). I would have been at this level before if I had eaten more (gluten free) humble pie than the normal kind. Leave your ego at the warmup area, and don't complicate it too much. You'll make great gains after you get used to it.

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Joshua Naterman

No problem, you're the man! We all know it :)

I just hope people listen, what you've given here is gold.

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Eddie Stelling

Phillip,

Thanks for your explanation! Between your information and Slizzardman's break down of the basics, I think I have a pretty good grasp of everything! I had labrum surgery in August and rotator cuff surgery 2 wks ago both on the left arm, so I will be starting completely over at the very beginning! :cry: But, I wanted to learn as much as I can about the topic while the post was fresh, even though I'm at least a year away from thinking about it. Thanks for your help!

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Philip Chubb

It takes learning from the man to become the man, Slizzardman! Thank you for all the post you have written.

Eddie, no problem my friend! Always happy to help. Good luck with your surgery and when you get into two a day training, tell me how it goes!

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Samuel Carr
If you have not completed the pre-requisites, you can try using this method with the pre-requisites as well but do not move on to actual FSP work until you have completed them exactly as specified.

Perfect! Exactly what I was wondering, thanks

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Samuel Carr

Sorry to bring up an old topic but I just want some feedback on what I did today.

This morning I did 7 fsp prerequisites in an ssc style but I cut the volume in half so that it wouldn't take as long and I wouldn't be as tired. Then I did the posted wod.

Complete 3 sets each:

1 Embedded PL + 5 Tempo Seated MU

1 Embedded BL + 5 Tempo HeS RLL

1 Embedded FL + 5 Tempo Lsit Lift

Finish the workout with 10 Bridge Wall Walks. I made everything not very hard using bands for assistance and I didn't feel tired afterwards. All of this (not including warm up and cool down) took about 45 minutes.

Then a few hours later in the day, I went to a gym and did some quick stretching and did:

3 x 10 assisted pull ups

3 x 10 shoulder presses

3 x 10 seated rows

and then I did some more stretching and this took me about 20 minutes.

How does this look?

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Philip Chubb
Sorry to bring up an old topic but I just want some feedback on what I did today.

This morning I did 7 fsp prerequisites in an ssc style but I cut the volume in half so that it wouldn't take as long and I wouldn't be as tired. Then I did the posted wod.

Complete 3 sets each:

1 Embedded PL + 5 Tempo Seated MU

1 Embedded BL + 5 Tempo HeS RLL

1 Embedded FL + 5 Tempo Lsit Lift

Finish the workout with 10 Bridge Wall Walks. I made everything not very hard using bands for assistance and I didn't feel tired afterwards. All of this (not including warm up and cool down) took about 45 minutes.

Then a few hours later in the day, I went to a gym and did some quick stretching and did:

3 x 10 assisted pull ups

3 x 10 shoulder presses

3 x 10 seated rows

and then I did some more stretching and this took me about 20 minutes.

How does this look?

You have got the idea!

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Joshua Naterman

Yea buddy, the secret is out!

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