Bradford Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 I realize this might be "small potatoes", but I find this interesting and I thought I would throw this one out to gain some insight from all you forum people. Thanks.Goals: Full ROM HSPU, OAC, heaviest pistol i can manage, rehab/build chest (very minor chest injury), get a nice heavy swing. Then perhaps move on to some gymnastic feats, FL, PL, ring work, etc.Where I Am: HSPU below parallel maybe 3 inches for 3-4 reps, chin+85lbs 1RM, assisted OAC while holding support around abs during deadhang x2reps, 70lb 1RM pistol (probably more, 5x2 of 60lbs in less than 10min the other day), 80lb swing x 10 reps pretty well, did 5x10 plus 5x10 planched ring pushups the other day in 10 min. I'm 5'9'', 127-130lbs. Eating paleo, just started on grass fed beef, great stuff, try it.In short, I am now unable to recover from what I do in the gym in the short amount of time I had allotted, and so the long awaited jump to training "less but harder" is here. I like the idea of ABA-BABing sessions. So, now I have three plans that are all very similar, I know. They are movements I like and I think will keep giving me the results I am looking for. So, my question is: What are the differences? Are there any considerations I should be thinking about that I have missed? Stuff like: One plan would be full-body, so that plan will give me a better neuroendocrine response, right? Little things, I know. But, I think we all love to wring value out of things. Let me know if I am overthinking, but at least I have narrowed it way down.Plan 1: Mon-HSPU/SLS Wed-Chin/Swing (w/chest) Fri-HSPU/SLSPlan 2: Mon-Chin/SLS Wed-HSPU/Swing (w/chest) Fri-Chin/SLSPlan 3: Mon-HSPU/Chin Wed-SLS/Swing (w/chest) Fri-HSPU/Chin *the following week the days flip-flop, mon/fri is now only wed, wed is now mon/fri etc...Maybe the chest work can be moved, I just like to superset it with swings. Also, this is to say nothing of sets and reps or anything like that. I like the idea of one day being max strength and the other being volume/dynamic. Anyhow, as far as the general outline I wonder about things like being able to recover from the pressing, a couple of plans have that at 3 days per week. Or warm ups, doing upper one day and lower the other make warmups easier. Please, let me know what you think, I am very interested to hear what you have to say. Thanks again.*BTW- I've never seen a poll, so I thought I would add one. Pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 What's your priority, Chinning or HSPU or lower body strength? Plan 3 would be best for upper body development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Hmmm... I guess I would like them all. The way I would set it up would ABA, so it seems like they would all get equal attention. On plan three it cycles back to 2x legs the next week, as with the others. To answer your question though, I really love chins, so the OAC is a favorite and what I feel closest to achieving. But the full HSPU would be really cool too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 You are way overthinking dude. Endocrine stuff is garbage in terms of exercise response. 20-30% rise with return to normal inside of 1 hr post workout is worthless and causes no additional gain whatsoever, and that's what you get.You need to make sure your nutrition is under control, my nutrition thread will ensure that you have all the most important stuff in place. That is the prime determining factor of what you get out of your training. Outside of that, I think you should do whatever you like the most and ALWAYS have those 2-3x per week. To me that would be HSPU + Chins. I would certainly alternate your SLS work in an ABA fashion if you want to save some time but not your priority exercises. Strength gains are best developed with 2-3x per week work, depending on volume per session. The muscle will build based on your strength gains over time.Within that, there are a multitude of approaches to take but that is the overall model for success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Okay, thank you for keeping me grounded. However, I just don't think I can do them that often. Am I wrong? I know what I'm doing may not be as taxing, but do people deadlift three times a week? Maybe it is my volume. Or is that an unfair comparison? I think I have my food straightened out since I last posted... As for ABAing the SLS, what did you have in mind when you mentioned that? Week one x2 sls and week two x1 and so forth?Just on note on what I had intended with this post- just trying to hammer out details. IE: If I do the chest rehab the same day as HSPU, that might "pre-exhaust" some other muscles and make the chest work harder. That seems like that might be good, but I don't want to get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Volume per session has to be lower, more like 3-4 sets and nothing to failure. That does take a bit of experimentation on your part, but that is where you will get your best strength gains. The number of sets you do is not as important as hitting the same ROM with the same resistance 3-4x per week without a break, ever. When you need a 'break' just do 1 set of the reps you always do with same resistance and ROM, you will find that in a week or two you are completely recovered with a noticeable surplus of strength. You lower the volume when you start to feel fatigued. You will find that after a few cycles of this that you just don't get fatigued anymore, and this will be when it's time to add more reps or ROM. Don't do both at the same time... Deadlifting 3x per week is no problem, you just have to remember to not destroy yourself in the workout! Very important that is, yes.... mmMMmMm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blairbob Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Do you upper body work and alternate SLS or swings. Quite honestly , you might find you could work in one workout if you cared to. I've heard varied reports on DL programming. Here is an article by Andy Bolton, the DL record holder. http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/16_weeks_to_a_new_deadlift_pr Here is a Q&A with him that includes a link to his blog and training log http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_strength/andy_bolton_deadlift_q_a There was a recent DL article a few months on Tnation that stated that 3d/w for DL worked till around 300lbs. 3d/w of 3/5x5. You can get away with more volume if the intensity is less. However, I would say most people don't think it's something like BS which the Bulgarians took to the point of training nearly every day or multiples a day. Squatting is different in that regard. SLS and KB swings are nowhere near as hard as doing 3d/week of barbells though. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Blair, you have to know that as long as the relative intensity stays the same the weight doesn't matter. I can DL 315 4-5 days a week no problem, but I'd have to do 2-3 sets at most.It all depends on what kind of adaptation you are looking for, small numbers of sets very frequently is not going to make you big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford Posted October 25, 2011 Author Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hmmm... This makes we wonder what kind of adaptations I would want, or should want. With what I was planning ABA-BABing the workouts would be great, plenty of rest as I feel as though I just need time to recover. And, for a time/warmup benefit I like the idea of just two movements a day. If I did just a couple of sets and kept the volume work low; I am sure, Slizzardman, that I could do the same movements a few days a week. But, I want to find some sort of in between "sweet spot" for strenth, conditioning, mass, etc... Say, 20 reps per movement in 10 minutes? Maybe as many as 30? I have stayed small this whole time, but am beginning to think I just might have to upgrade my "hardware" (muscle) to match my "software" (cns).I was thinking of upper body work being a 20 min strength circuit between the two. Trying for maybe 30 reps at the most, I love recording a time element for these purposes.Lower body would be 10min SLS (10x2). And swings/chest 10 min (5x10each).Upper-30. Lower-20. Swings/Chest Rehab-50. And loads to make those ranges appropriate of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 In the end you just need to try it out.As long as you are getting the right food at the right time you should be fine, what you have set up is not unreasonable in terms of volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradford Posted October 26, 2011 Author Share Posted October 26, 2011 Awesome Opossum! I will give it a go starting tomorrow. Lately I have been cutting the volume in half as you have suggested in the past in order to prepare me for my (self-proclaimed) "intermediate" programming. Now I can come back to it fresh and properly fed. I feel like I've got a pretty good spread for the modest home-workouter. This whole thing honestly began as a sort of science experiment in modesty a year ago Dec 1st. I had no idea what I was doing, but thanks to people on this site I learned quite a bit on the way. I have placed several limits on what I'm allowed to do, how much time can be spent, what and how much can be eaten, etc... Just to see what is possible for the common man. I feel like I have gotten pretty far in a short time, as most of my training this last year was worthless. If my time of training wisely has done this, then anyone can. I just wish I was more like you, Slizz. 6 foot whatever and 225. You know for yourself just how strong a big, tall guy could be on this style of programming. You have a hundred pounds on me. You doing wide grip pull ups are probably just as much of a strength feat as me doing a OAC! What I would not give to be larger! How strong people could be! I need a weight vest and stilts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Naterman Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 HAHAHAHA!!! No one believes me when I say it I don't think, but I wasn't very big when I started working out. I just happened to get lucky and got guidance from people who knew what they were talking about so I had great results.It's just like when I learned how to shoot guns in the Navy... I had never held a pistol or rifle in my life before that moment. They told me what to do and how to aim, and I did EXACTLY what they said no more no less, and I was 2 points away from having an expert ribbon. I had my sharpshooter instead and got my expert the first time I shot on my ship. I think that most of the poor results in life come from not following good instructions I am glad you are getting good results, keep it up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Dano Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I think that most of the poor results in life come from not following good instructions Words to live by Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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