Beginning Handstand work

[305pelusa]

Hello!

I've read a few threads (plus the stickys), and I just need some slight direction here as I'm starting out.

I'm doing Handstand twice a week for 10-20 min (Coach's recommendation). I'll probably change this slowly to something more frequent for less time, but for now, I like the rough guideline of about 10 min, twice a week.

However, I have NO clue which handstand to use during that time. Stomach-to-wall, or back-to-wall.

I read about HS runs, which, in my case, would be something like once every 2-3 weeks.

However, for the other sessions, what kind of handstand work do I use? I know I should do sets and rest 30-60 s (roughly) and stay fresh throughout the 10 min. What I don't know is which kind to use, and the benefits of one over the other.

I guess I'm just wondering the kind of Handstand I should use for the handstand skill work...

Thanks!

[Adam Bodestyne]

Hiya,

I'm not sure what your handstands are like currently. However, I'm inclined to recommend spending time in stomach-to-wall position to really work on improving your bodyline. Make sure you're working on tension through your whole body, push hard through your shoulders, keep your hips tucked. (which you might already know from having read the various other threads, so apologies if I'm just repeating things.) Get close enough to the wall so that your chest and thighs are touching the wall.

When doing back-to-wall handstands, there can be a tendancy to lose the proper body position, especially if you are still relying on keeping your feet against the wall for balance. Unless there's some little groove or alcove cut into the wall for your hands to go under the wall, you'll necessarily be at least the length of your hand's distance from the wall, and so when your feet rest on the wall, you'll end up arching slightly.

[Scott Malin]

The stomach method allows you to more effectively replicate a freestanding handstand and is the recommended method for developing your HS. Priority will be body line and trap engagement. As you grow stronger, you will be able to get your wrists closer to the wall--don't rush it though as you will otherwise compromise form.

[305pelusa]

Oh, all right.

Thanks guys!

My handstands are pretty bad right now. I'm not even close to full ROM Wall extensions, so I guess that's my main test to determine it.

I'll put the effort towards making them better, and I think that's what will, in the end, count.

Again, thank you for the help!

[Aaron Griffin]

Unless there's some little groove or alcove cut into the wall for your hands to go under the wall

Hmm. Screw-in doorway pullup bar at about chest level. I wonder...

[305pelusa]

Ok, so I did them today. Stomach-to-wall.

I'm wondering though. Should I get close enough to the wall that pretty much my whole body is touching it? Or should I get as close as possible while keeping a totally straight back?

Because in one of them, I got really close to the wall (even my stomach was touching it), but there are a slight arch in my upper back (I made sure to tuck my hips though, to maintain a hollow position). However, if I don't get as close, my back (from hips to neck) can stay totally flat (and I guess I would slowly progress to getting closer with shoulder mobility and handstand practice?).

I'm not totally sure what perfect form means here...

[Blairbob]

Don't arch.

Yes, there is a thing as too close to the wall. If your wrists are actually touching the wall, your shoulder angle can actually be less than open. This becomes a factor as you become older and bigger since one tends to be thicker in cross section.

Let's face it, at my chest, I'm probably twice as wide as one of the girls I weight 3x as much as or even twice as much. Now think of someone a whole lot bigger than me like Sliz.

[Vagabond]

For the arching problem, practice your "incurve position" (still don't know the English name, but your body is hollow, butt and abs contracted, pelvis lightly tilted. This position is most of the time practiced on the back) on your stomach, on the ground, and try to get a similar position while facing the wall. Also, a good trick to avoid arching and putting your chest in would be to try to reach as high as you can on the wall with your toes.

[305pelusa]

For the arching problem, practice your "incurve position" (still don't know the English name, but your body is hollow, butt and abs contracted, pelvis lightly tilted. This position is most of the time practiced on the back) on your stomach, on the ground, and try to get a similar position while facing the wall. Also, a good trick to avoid arching and putting your chest in would be to try to reach as high as you can on the wall with your toes.

I believe it's called the "hollow position". I did make use of it. However, the arch is NOT at my lower back (the hollow position keeps it flat). It's in my UPPER back.

I guess it's just lack of shoulder mobility. I'll keep working on it, and I'm sure I'll get body.

BTW, thank you for the second tip as well. I'll definitely try it out as well next time!!

[Adam Bodestyne]

Also, how is your head position? If your head is tilted back too much, your back will tend to follow it, hence an arch in the upper back. Try to position it such that if you can see your thumbs just by moving your eyes, if you aren't doing that already.

[Vagabond]

If your shoulders aren't flexible enough to open and not have your upper back arch, then bring your shoulders more forward and correct your back posture. It will strengthen them. Besides, keep working hard on your shoulders opening, and every time you do a handstand, try to open your shoulders a bit more, until you reach enough extension to have your body straight and aligned. By that time, not only will your shoulders be stronger, but you'll have drilled a very straight back position, and learned to use your shoulders, wrists and hands rather than the rest. And work on your shoulders flexibility a bit every day.

And sorry for my mistake earlier. Ah, and also, thanks for the hollow position. I thought about this one, but I know that some people also use it for talking about an arched position, which makes it confusing.

[Zingam]

While doing handstands with stomach to wall (in my case) is there something to reduce the chance of flipping over and falling on my back which could be disastrous?

What routine is recommended to do to improve my chances to kick to a wall handstand successfully?

[Philip Chubb]

While doing handstands with stomach to wall (in my case) is there something to reduce the change of flipping over and falling on my back which could be disastrous?

What routine is recommended to do to improve my chances to kick to a wall handstand successfully?

Your finger tips should press into the ground if you're over balancing but just in case, it is always important to be able to roll out of the handstand for safety.

[Zingam]

Goddammit! Lifting weights is so much easier. You take a weight and you lift it...

...and to perform even the simplest gymnastics exercises there so many skills involved. Now I need to learn how to roll too... :roll:

[Brutus]

Goddammit! Lifting weights is so much easier. You take a weight and you lift it...

...and to perform even the simplest gymnastics exercises there so many skills involved. Now I need to learn how to roll too... :roll:

That´s the point. Even the easiest exercise involves balance, control and many other skills but power and strenght

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Goddammit! Lifting weights is so much easier. You take a weight and you lift it...

...and to perform even the simplest gymnastics exercises there so many skills involved. Now I need to learn how to roll too... :roll:

No offense, Zingam, but weight lifting is not as simple as taking a weight and lifting it. You are 100% correct that gymnastic movements/exercises require a lot of technical skill, but so does Olympic lifting. There is always technique to be learned and improved when you begin to train exercises based on how you feel and as a skill.

[Joshua Naterman]

Ok, so I did them today. Stomach-to-wall.

I'm wondering though. Should I get close enough to the wall that pretty much my whole body is touching it? Or should I get as close as possible while keeping a totally straight back?

Because in one of them, I got really close to the wall (even my stomach was touching it), but there are a slight arch in my upper back (I made sure to tuck my hips though, to maintain a hollow position). However, if I don't get as close, my back (from hips to neck) can stay totally flat (and I guess I would slowly progress to getting closer with shoulder mobility and handstand practice?).

I'm not totally sure what perfect form means here...

Arching the upper thoracic spine is necessary to create a flat upper back, which in turn is necessary for the scapula to really do their job. If you watch professional hand balancers very closely, you will see that they all have 0-10 degrees of thoracic extension in their handstands while maintaining a hollow core and hips. The same can be seen in a really good gymnastics handstand, especially in the beginning of a good straight arm press if the athlete doesn't have ideal compression. The slight extension allows for a straight line through the shoulders with the body moving in such a way as to keep COG directly inside the base (hands from fingertips to palm heel). As the press is completed you will see whatever small degree of extension return to 0 degrees, which is a flat spine. NOT the normal thoracic curve that the spine has in resting posture.

It will probably feel like you are arching, but at the very most you're going to have 20 degrees of extension from T-12 to T-1, that is ideal ROM. Most people can't even get their thoracic spine to 0 degrees of extension. It is very important to be able to extend to 0 degrees at the very least. This will feel like an extreme arch at first. As long as you are feeling this from the shoulderblades up to the base of your neck and preferably the base of your skull you are fine.

You will feel it to the skull because that is where many of the thoracic extensors are anchored.

It is important to understand that this upper thoracic extension should be performed along with full shoulder flexion (opening of the shoulders), not as a crutch.

I was personally highly deficient in thoracic extension, and as I have worked on it my handstand abilities have improved measurably.

Along with the extension, it is important to work the upper traps with the prone Y and I variations at 0 degrees, 30 degrees and 45 degrees. I have also found that standing with a slight pike to give a 75-80 degree (above horizontal) angle has helped as well, and has made wall handstands much more productive.

I worked with about 3 lbs for 6-8 weeks and now I am using 5 lbs most of the time. Build up slowly, don't go for big weight. There is quite a series for this that I have come up with, broken up across the week to make it fairly short. I will release this eventually, but not for a while. When I can rep out straddle HS presses I will release it, not before. I want to make sure I really have this down.

[Zingam]

Goddammit! Lifting weights is so much easier. You take a weight and you lift it...

...and to perform even the simplest gymnastics exercises there so many skills involved. Now I need to learn how to roll too... :roll:

No offense, Zingam, but weight lifting is not as simple as taking a weight and lifting it. You are 100% correct that gymnastic movements/exercises require a lot of technical skill, but so does Olympic lifting. There is always technique to be learned and improved when you begin to train exercises based on how you feel and as a skill.

I don't mean Olympic lifting, I mean general body building.

For me weight lifting and gymnastics are just for general fitness. Competitive sports are something on a whole different level.

Working out for fitness should have quite different goals/methods than competitive sports.

[Joshua Naterman]

Goddammit! Lifting weights is so much easier. You take a weight and you lift it...

...and to perform even the simplest gymnastics exercises there so many skills involved. Now I need to learn how to roll too... :roll:

No offense, Zingam, but weight lifting is not as simple as taking a weight and lifting it. You are 100% correct that gymnastic movements/exercises require a lot of technical skill, but so does Olympic lifting. There is always technique to be learned and improved when you begin to train exercises based on how you feel and as a skill.

I don't mean Olympic lifting, I mean general body building.

For me weight lifting and gymnastics are just for general fitness. Competitive sports are something on a whole different level.

Working out for fitness should have quite different goals/methods than competitive sports.

You are very wrong. The only difference in strength training methods (for a given tool, such as barbells or dumbbells, etc) should be the degree of consistency and progression towards elite status. The major difference between the two is skill training, which is completely separate from the physical preparation.

When you are properly trained for competitive sports you are using the most efficient methods to gain/build the physical structure you need and are forced to use only perfect movement, because anything else leads to unnecessary injury somewhere down the road.

When it comes to general fitness I certainly agree that efficiency sometimes goes out the window in the name of fun, and that's fine with me, but perfect movement nearly always goes as well and that is NOT ok. That is why so many people in the general fitness population are nursing some sort of injury.

If all you want is to look great and be healthy with minimal time investment, eat correctly and train efficiently. That's like 80% of what competitive sports are all about. Methods will usually be very, very similar. If nothing else though, only accept perfect movement.

[Cole Dano]

I totally agree with Josh on this. The difference should be one of degree.

Honestly, the fitness world is just a mess, more effort is put into entertainment and sales pitch then quality. The fact is it's the brain that makes the muscles move. Strength training is in all reality brain training. Sure it's not the same as doing advanced mathematics, that's a different part of the brain, but huge portion of the brain is devoted to motor skill.

Yes getting fit can be fun, but every thing we do with our body can be looked at as a skill. Even just walking around, if you are actually aware, you can find there are an infinite number of ways to walk. So even though we don't work on 'skills' learning to do the strength work itself is a skill. Same goes for lifting weights, which is a very technical endeavor.

All the exercises we do require learning basic motor skills, and then getting the neural connections to those more efficient so we fire more muscle fibers and in turn get stronger.

Just having fun, mindlessly doing random exercises is missing the point. A forum member recently posted a nice video of himself doing quality work in a gym. One of the things that astounded me was there was a TV in the background. No wonder someone thinks that lifting weights is not a skill, folks are being taught to tune out in the gym, not to tune in. It's sad.