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Ian Legrow

TIMING ON STATIC HOLDS

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Ian Legrow

Ok, so I have learned a lot from this web site. I am confused on one thing tho. Max holds for static positions,I have read, are not something you shoudl do every work out (eg. if one can hold an l-sit for 15s and then falls from the strain that person should not do 3x15s, they shoudl instead do 8s hholds). My question is there are some people on youtube who do things like L-sits for 10x6s but i have also heard not to do more then 5 sets for a given static exercise. So like me, i can hold a advance tuck front lever fr 15s. SO, should i do 3-5 sets of 8s or should i do 6 or 7 sets of 8s, becasue then i would meet the 60s goal? Just wondering.

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Blairbob
but i have also heard not to do more then 5 sets for a given static exercise.

I disagree.

6 or 7.

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Joshua Naterman

It depends on what you can handle. If those are your hold times you will be working on strength pretty heavily, so unless you want your FSP work to be the bulk of your strength work you may want to consider limiting the FSP work to 4-5 sets. Your hold times will still increase nicely but you will also have energy for other things.

For L sit wither way is ok, but I would be more cautious with back lever and planche work. They are much easier to hurt yourself with than L sit so take those slower.

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Cole Dano

You certainly can do more sets as well. It just winds up taking a long time, and if you are doing FSP work as part of a warm up, you might put so much time and energy into the warm up that there is not enough left for the work out.

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Joshua Naterman
You certainly can do more sets as well. It just winds up taking a long time, and if you are doing FSP work as part of a warm up, you might put so much time and energy into the warm up that there is not enough left for the work out.

Yea, there seem to be a number of people who run into this. You can approach this two ways: One is that the FSP are fundamentals and therefore should get a little more attention, with the FBE being secondary. This is probably the attitude to have if you want gymnastic strength as first priority. Once you have a solid L sit the rest comes along much easier so this is NOT a bad way to go.

For people who are used to moving more or just like that kind of a workout it works out better to have the statics take a second seat in terms of how much energy gets put into them, and following a lighter plan like I often recommend works out well for this population.

I am sort of flip-flopping from what I used to do, meaning as my shoulder gets better I am giving statics a bit more time and going slower on movement as this is harder for me. I am learning to use my lats as stabilizers for the first time, and I have to say that OAC work is helping a lot. That really isn't part of this thread so I'll stop that sort of talk here, but that was interesting to me.

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Matthew Mossop

I was about to post the same thing. In the back of BtGB it says once you can hold a static position for 15s, move on to the next progression. I thought the aim was generally 60s before moving on to the next progression.

Also, I've been doing l-sits, FL, German Hang, ring turned out support and HS for my warm up and manage to get them done without taking too much time. However, I've been holding everything for until failure for my reps. For example I'll hold an tuck FL for 35 seconds, break, then 25 seconds, then 10 seconds.

Is it much better to calculate your max hold, divide by two, and then break up the sets that way?

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Tarun Suri

Yes, you're joints take much much longer than muscles to heal and strengthen. Going to failure at that frequency is an injury wanting to happen. That's why with a steady approach, using only 50% intensity is recommended.

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Matthew Mossop

Hmm well I don't feel like I'm anywhere close to injury, but I'll take the advice.

So I should calculate my max holds, then practice the 50% thing for say 3 weeks, then recalculate? Does this go for handstands too or not since that's skill work?

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Joshua Naterman

Yes to all questions :lol:!

So seriously, you are ok doing something harder once a week, and that's probably a good idea, but the bulk of your time needs to be spend on ensuring structural integrity so to speak. Connective tissue takes 10-12 weeks to adapt fully to a given load and volume, so even small consistent increases can cause a slow deterioration that may take up to a year to become noticeable. Once you FEEL it you have already developed some serious issues, believe it or not, so taking steps to ensure that never happens is very important in my opinion.

Even though you might lose your mind the ideal thing to do is calculate as you've said and then do the same thing for 8-12 weeks. You will make good gains, it will feel like you aren't even trying, and you won't get hurt unless you already have underlying issues that make themselves apparent as your training continues.

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Matthew Mossop

I gotta spend 8 - 12 weeks on a damn tuck FL? Lol. Well I guess if I have to I have to.

So this goes for all of: l-sits, FL, GH, HS, and ring turned out support?

Also, if I follow this regime how long should I rest between holds in a single exercise?

Thanks again :).

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Joshua Naterman

Lol, I know it sounds crazy! I did it with my statics and I got strong fast as hell, but I already had a lot of strength that I just didn't know how to use. I'm doing this for planche too, I can press to a momentary static straddle but I am training a toe-supported tuck for 20s just so you know lol! It's a slow process but you develop strength far in excess of what you appear to possess.

I have found that 30-60s rests work well, but for maximum efficiency I pair holds up so that it's like Planche, FL, reverse plank, repeat 4x or something like that. Done this way there's almost no dead rest, it's all just rest while doing something unrelated. Saves lots of time.

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Blairbob

Same here, Sliz.

When I'm limited by time, I just do them in sequence with transitory rests and then perhaps a longer rest period after the circuit. It isn't great, but it's about all that can be done when my time is limited or when I'm dealing with my gymnasts. Many of them do not realize that they need rest periods.

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Matthew Mossop
I have found that 30-60s rests work well, but for maximum efficiency I pair holds up so that it's like Planche, FL, reverse plank, repeat 4x or something like that. Done this way there's almost no dead rest, it's all just rest while doing something unrelated. Saves lots of time.

Ah ok cool I'll try that out, thanks :).

Also, sorry to be redundant, but I'm still not 100% sure if halving maximum hold times applies to HS and l-sits?

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Brozman

Hi there,

I hope you would understand what I want to say.

So let the game begin :D

I do exercise of static holds 4 times a week (workout - rest - workout...) and after these 4 training days I used to get a 2 day off (like a weekend). I do FL and PL (both tuck for now) and I think I progress faster on FL. And thats what I want to ask - I want to target on my PL, and I dont if I can do it more often than 4 times a week.

And almost I forgot - my total time spent on PL is 60 seconds a day (10x6s).

What can you advice me, guys?

Sorry for that, but I didnt want to create a new topic.

Thanks.

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Joshua Naterman

You can't really speed up PL. It is WAY harder that FL for several reasons, but the main reason is that your connective tissue (specifically long head of the biceps tendon at the shoulder, elbow ligaments and tendon attachments of all muscles crossing the elbow joint) is the primary limiting factor. These take a long time to strengthen, it typically takes 3 years of consistent work to build the inner elbow up to the point where you have the connective tissue strength for really hard work. There is no short cut.

Planche is like a college degree dude, you have to put in your time. There is no other way. Everything is the same way, really, but PL especially. Most people can and do achieve FL much faster than PL. There's nothing wrong with that.

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Quick Start Test Smith

Isn't the FL (or at least some variation) a pre-requisite for PL work?

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Joshua Naterman

Not directly, but hollow hold is a pre-req for L sit and L sit is prereq for planche.

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Brozman

Man, thank you for your useful reply, I really appreciate it; I see that I must keep learning a lot about gymnastics.

But the other thing - can I try it more than 60s total? And can I do it every day?

Example:

my workout days (total time of PL on that day):

monday (60s)

tuesday (30s)

wednesday (60s)

thursday (30s)

friday (60s)

saturday (30s)

sunday (60s)

What do you think about it?

Because I think it is very little time for me to progress (4min. a week).

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Joshua Naterman
Man, thank you for your useful reply, I really appreciate it; I see that I must keep learning a lot about gymnastics.

But the other thing - can I try it more than 60s total? And can I do it every day?

Example:

my workout days (total time of PL on that day):

monday (60s)

tuesday (30s)

wednesday (60s)

thursday (30s)

friday (60s)

saturday (30s)

sunday (60s)

What do you think about it?

Because I think it is very little time for me to progress (4min. a week).

Yes and know. You have an opinion on something that you know nothing about, which is bad in MY opinion. I'm not trying to be insulting, but I'm pretty direct so please forgive me if I offend you. I am suggesting that you NOT have an opinion of your own until you see for yourself what 4 minutes per week per hold does for you after 4-5 months. At THAT point you will be in a position to say something that has more behind it than just random doubt. Until then trust the guys and gals here (and COACH) who have had experience getting good results and also trust those who have done too much and gotten hurt.

Now, you CAN work every day but my suggestion will be to do one single hold on your non-training days. For example, lets say you're doing 4 sets of 15s tuck FL. On your off days (not the 4 days that you do 4x15) I would do 1x15s. That's is, just one set. Trust me, the worst thing you can do is TOO much.

You are ALWAYS welcome to do more, we can always use more people as testimonials to how easy it is to get hurt when you ignore the guidelines.

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ashita
Planche is like a college degree dude, you have to put in your time. There is no other way. Everything is the same way, really, but PL especially. Most people can and do achieve FL much faster than PL. There's nothing wrong with that.

yeah i had my FL much more before my full planche, but not so much either.

Full planche is only for the most dedicated and passionate people. :)

Oh and BTW i always trained my static exercice 4 times a week and for those who know me ,i think my full planche is very solid, this kind of stuff takes little volume of training but requires to be constant.

And takes a loooooooooooooong time.

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Brozman

Thank you so much guys, I really appreciate it.

And I dont think you offend me man, it is ok.

So I keep on doing what I began, PL + FL work 4x a week.

Sorry for that noob question, now I know a little bit more.

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Joshua Naterman

No worries, we all have the same questions when we start out!

I DO personally think that one single FSP hold (same time and position as your training holds) is good for the non-training days, but more than that is a bad idea.

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