Scaling pulling WOD

[Estari]

I never could scale pulling wod, so I could make all 4 sets the same way. I am doing WODs for 6 months now, but i haven't seen any significant improvement in pulling strength and endurance, yet... especially in front lever, front pulls, FL pulls and multiplane movements - i can barely perform tuck front pull when i'm fresh, so there no way for me to perform several in a row X times a WOD. Also negatives are really exhausting, it feels like Front pulls leave almost no strength left.

Can anyone help me how to scale or substitute pulling WOD days?

Thanks in advance for answers

[Quick Start Test Smith]

Hi, Estari. Would you find the WOD that you have trouble doing and link to it? And then describe how you're scaling it?

[Estari]

i did today this one

Complete four rounds:

2 Front Pulls - 2 tuck front pulls with 5kg attached to my neck for counterbalance - pretty hard anyway

5 Pullovers - on the first round did L-sit pull ups - other rounds just rows

2 Front Pulls

7 TOPs Pulls - tuck TOPs - quiet fast

2 Front Pulls

9 FL Pulls - tuck FL pulls

1st round was fine, but I felt exhausted( not much, but I knew i won't be able to complete wod that way)

2nd-4th round i substituted front pulls with negatives, but they are exhausting... I couldn't also complete 7 TOPs and 9 FL pulls( just did rows instead missing number of TOPs/FL pulls)

i feel like I lack endurance rather than strenght...

[Josh Schmitter]

Good tidings indeed,

I was actually going to post something similar to this today, so hopefully this will work out, if not I'll post another anyway. I was in your position for a while and have just finally incorporated subs that I feel are correct...almost perfect for me w/ some minor tweaking. It took me a while to realize just how far back I had to sub, also, on top of that, keeping in mind these are NOT max strength days. I go down to almost all Single Plane exercises on the Dynamic Pull days, if not then I use bands for assistance(which I believe to be ideal).

So for example in the WOD you quoted I would sub something like this:

2 Tuck Front Lever Pull Negatives or even to Body Levers

5 Pullovers--->5 tuck FL pulls with band assist

7 TOP pulls--->7 Pull ups band assist or jumping/negatives

9 FL pulls----->9 Body rows, feet on floor, body about 145 degrees to ground(i.e. almost standing)

This is the best I have some up with so far. As far as progress goes, I also haven't seen much in this realm until recently. The problem is, if you don't have consistent subs and keep changing around each time this WOD comes up, progress will be MUCH slower. The WOD's can be a SSC and for that to work, consistency is key.

Ok, I hope that helps someone . Now, I also had a question about the Embedded days, i.e.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=6781

* I am still working on the best way to incorporate both planes of motion when scaling down from MPP. I have several ideas, but not sure which, if any, are the way to go.

1)For example with the yewkis/PL dips: Switching exercises(i.e. pulls/rows, push ups/dips respectively) each time these MPP came up in WOD's be worthwhile(i.e. would it be enough frequency per plane)...

2)Adding to each WOD whenever MPP arise(i.e. adding 2 more giant sets so all planes are represented). This seems like the better option to me, but I am still unsure how to add them.

-Adding them into the warmup sets...

-Adding more giant giant sets per plane(Though I feel this might be too much extra).

-Adding intra giant sets already posted, As doing 1 of each plane back to back: PL Dips=1 tempo Push up, 1 Tempo Dip, x Rx'd reps. Yewkis=1 Pull up, 1 Row, x Rx'd Reps(Have tried this a few times and I burn out quite fast, so would need to scale back even more than usual).

Thanks for any help...I am working on getting to a seminar hopefully next year where I know all this could be answered and more, but alas, until then...

[Philip Papandrea]

Hi ,

I'm in the same boat as far as scaling pulling WOD's. It's very difficult to track progress and scale since they are always changing. It doesn't feel like any progress is being made on the pulling WOD's themselves although I must say that when i'm fresh and do a max pullup test either for reps or weighted I have seen improvement so they must be working. For the longest I kept trying to include movements in the family of exercises that were listed but I could never make it through a workout. Don't know if it is correct but what i've been doing lately is just picking whatever pulling exercise I can make for the listed reps no matter what plane of pulling its in. As an example todays WOD was

2 – Back Pulls

1 – 15’ Cirque

2 – Back Pulls

3 – FL Rows

2 – Back Pulls

5 – Half FL Pulls

I wound up doing

2 – hang in inverted hang drop down half way to tuck BL and pull back to inverted hang.

10 foot supported on ground towel rows

2 – hang in inverted hang drop down half way to tuck BL and pull back to inverted hang.

3 – pullups

2 – hang in inverted hang drop down half way to tuck BL and pull back to inverted hang.

5 –body rows feet elvate on chair

Hope this gives you some ideas

Phil

[Estari]

Thanks for your answers,

I see progress in pull ups too, i can pull up BW + 22 kg for 1-2 reps, but in those FL rows, Front pulls and multi plane i see almost no progress...

As i' ve written before my main problem are Front pulls, even negatives are too exhasting, and body levers seems to work core, not upper back...

So for example in the WOD you quoted I would sub something like this:

2 Tuck Front Lever Pull Negatives or even to Body Levers

5 Pullovers--->5 tuck FL pulls with band assist

7 TOP pulls--->7 Pull ups band assist or jumping/negatives

9 FL pulls----->9 Body rows, feet on floor, body about 145 degrees to ground(i.e. almost standing)

here you do exercises from hardest to easiest variation, I think you should do reverse(easy -> hard) and here I fail I think. I can do something over 10 pull ups(haven't tested), and maybe some other variation(which are the hardest variaion I can perform, but easiest from progression...) i can complete in that rep range. The easiest for me are rows, but i don't feel like I should substitute more than 1 exercise with rows(which ussually hard on last set too). So I do the hardest last( little strenght left) and easiest the first, so rows first and multi plane or fl rows last, but in the middle there I can't substitute anything but rows again or pull ups suported, but its hard to support the same weight everytime i do them just with legs( I don't have elastic bands good for this)...

I am too intrested in how one should substitute multiplane movements... I was thinking of doing difrent plane each set, dunno if it will be sufficient substitution...

Again thanks for help

[Gerald Mangona]

I might take hell for this, but since I'm coming to gymnastics without a whole lot of strength background I'll put it out there. And just to give you some context, when I first started, I would max out at 9-10 deadhang pullups. And I thought that wasn't too bad until I found out that a full range pull-up brings the rings down to your chest, not your chin.

So...in the interest of trying to scale down the WODs in a way that was more meaningful to my level of strength, I started at the beginning of the WOD rotation from 2-3 years ago and have been working from there for 6 months. With the multiplane pulls, I sub XR pull-ups and XR rows. The scaling is much easier for me to do on those WODs and it's been effective for me given where I'm starting at.

J

[Josh Schmitter]

... This one was really really tough. I felt like I couldn't get a good substitute for the Front Lever Pulls ...

Good point.

Possible substitutions for the Front Pulls include negative only Front Pulls (the rings could be adjusted to allow you to jump into the inverted hang), negative only Body Levers or possibly even hollow rocks if necessary.

Yours in Fitness, Coach Sommer

@Estari: That being said, if it is the straight arms that are giving problems, please anyone correct me if I'm wrong, but I would imagine straight arm Body Levers would be an appropriate sub.

Don't know if it is correct but what i've been doing lately is just picking whatever pulling exercise I can make for the listed reps no matter what plane of pulling its in.

@PhilipP: That makes sense. I think as long as you stick with your subs, whatever they are(assuming they are at the right level), you will see progress. The thing is it is much easier to represent both planes on Dynamic days as you have 3 different pull or push movements to work with. Whereas on Embedded days, not only is it max strength, the exercises are not all pull or all push...therein lies the dilemma of where to add the extra planes if indeed adding is the way to go.

@JmanDetroit

Hell----->JmanDetroit .

Seriously though, that does seem like a reasonable solution. I definitely don't think it is 'wrong' and if you're seeing results, the hell you will potentially get will be meaningless. I read through all the WOD's a while back, and can totally see being able to add more things without burning out as they were much simpler(not necessarily easier, just less concrete in exercises) back then. I guess I would probably go for the killroy template before I did that, but that would be just my preference.

[Philip Papandrea]

Hi

TANSTAAFL wrote

Whereas on Embedded days, not only is it max strength, the exercises are not all pull or all push...therein lies the dilemma of where to add the extra planes if indeed adding is the way to go.

Mondays WOD was:

1 Embedded BL + 5 Tempo Yewkis

1 Embedded L-sit + 5 Tempo PL Dips

1 Embedded FL + 5 Tempo Under-grip HLLI

i just did

1 Embedded BL + 5 Wieghted Chins

1 Embedded L-sit + 5 Ring Dips

1 Embedded FL + 5 Tempo Under-grip HLL

Again i don't know if this is correct but after struggling with trying to scale the WOD's down to the lowest exercise in the family of movements for the past year and not being able to finish workouts I realized if I haven't mastered the prerequists,an Lsit for any length of time, or a muscleup why struggle trying to do FL rows, pulls or swinging dips, yewkis's etc.... This year I was going to keep doing the WOD cycle but actaully pick exercises that I will be able to do all rounds, reps and tempos with. For me that pretty much means doing rows, different grip pullup and chins weighted and unweighted, pb dips, ring dips, HesPU, weighted and unweighted floor pushups for my FBE's. For FSP's that means the prereq's, Lsits, tuck FL, inverted and german hangs, ring supports. I really enjoy this gymnastic stuff but there is so much variety it's really hard to feel like your making progress cause workouts are always changing. We'll see how this scaling down works.

Phil

[Cole Dano]

Phil i admire your perseverance. If it makes you feel any better, i'm always working on the best way to scale things. I guess i'm on about 15 months, for doing the WODs on a consistent basis.

The progress sneaks up on you. The constant changing nature of the workouts is daunting at first, but after awhile they start to seem familiar and after a few fails for a given type of WOD one figures out what to do. Usually its about the basics, get them first.

[Josh Schmitter]

Hi

i just did

1 Embedded BL + 5 Wieghted Chins

1 Embedded L-sit + 5 Ring Dips

1 Embedded FL + 5 Tempo Under-grip HLL

Again i don't know if this is correct but after struggling with trying to scale the WOD's down to the lowest exercise in the family of movements for the past year and not being able to finish workouts I realized if I haven't mastered the prerequists,an Lsit for any length of time, or a muscleup why struggle trying to do FL rows, pulls or swinging dips, yewkis's etc.... This year I was going to keep doing the WOD cycle but actaully pick exercises that I will be able to do all rounds, reps and tempos with. For me that pretty much means doing rows, different grip pullup and chins weighted and unweighted, pb dips, ring dips, HesPU, weighted and unweighted floor pushups for my FBE's. For FSP's that means the prereq's, Lsits, tuck FL, inverted and german hangs, ring supports. I really enjoy this gymnastic stuff but there is so much variety it's really hard to feel like your making progress cause workouts are always changing. We'll see how this scaling down works.Phil

I totally agree. It is harder to see progress when it's being made in all systems fairly equally and, in turn, slowly overall. However, I do believe this to be the most efficient in the long run from everything I've gathered here. The issue I still have with your(and my) subs is, by doing chins and dips, you have taken out the horizontal element(row/pushup) and I'm still trying to find the best way to add that back in doing single planes. I'm not saying progress won't be made, I just can't get past thinking a plane overlooked(specifically in a max strength setting), in the long term, is a big deal.

[Philip Papandrea]

Thanks Mr Brady, Seeing alot of people in the same boat as me definitley keeps me from getting frustrated and after a year I've come to realize how important it is to get the basics first.

TANSTAAFL, I don't feel the horizontal movement is being neglected since on dynamic push and pull days i'm having to sub quite a bit with rows and pushups to get through the work out. If you feel they are neglected on max stregth days then every other max stregth embedded day do the hardest variation of row you can do and some weighted pushups or ppp's instead of pullups and dips.

[Josh Schmitter]

TANSTAAFL, I don't feel the horizontal movement is being neglected since on dynamic push and pull days i'm having to sub quite a bit with rows and pushups to get through the work out. If you feel they are neglected on max stregth days then every other max stregth embedded day do the hardest variation of row you can do and some weighted pushups or ppp's instead of pullups and dips.

I hear ya, I do the same thing on dynamic days. I guess I'm just still wondering if neglecting a certain plane consistently on a strength day will cause problems, or, since we are still at the lower/beginning levels, the horizontal work on dynamic days will be enough to fill the gap. The main thing for me is, on those dynamic days, it's far less than max strength so I feel like I'm missing something. I think I might play around with 2 month(ish) cycles of doing 1 plane in embedded, then another for the next one. Thanks for all the ideas and reassurance