How to Blast the Shoulders? In Size

[chingyvang]

I don't want to work with weights, no space, unemployed, no spotter. My physique have grown greatly since I've been blasting my chest with Gironda Dips & incline push ups, abs are growing well especially since I'm an Ectomorph. But holding handstands against the wall isn't growing my shoulders fast enough to catch up with my pecs and abs. And since I use no weights, shoulder training is severely limited to handstands, which I am currently holding for about 2 minutes now wall supported. Even my triceps just from the dips alone, are over shadowing my puny shoulders.

Naturally I don't have broad shoulders so this is one area I really need to hit. Should I start work on free handstands immediately? Key words, I am looking to build shoulder mass without weights.

[Richard Duelley]

I would say start working planche, front/back lever, HS push ups and anything on the rings. Also look up Ido Portals stuff for some cool handstand drills you can do against the wall. Just doing regular HS wall holds gets boring fast, at least to me

[EastWind]

Try pike push-ups. They are pretty hard and will help you build strength to do handstand push-ups later. When they become easier, just raise your feet on something (could be your washing machine, a chair, a table, whatever…), so there will be more weight pressing against your arms. Just make sure you don't flare your elbows out. Make sure to test yourself and start in a position which allows you to do some reps.

[chingyvang]

wow thanks guys, i'd definitely try out some pike pushups. But remember guys, Im trying not to gain any arm size at all since it will only make my shoulders look even smaller.

[Joshua Naterman]

That will be determined by the ROM you use. You should be able to figure out which parts hit the shoulders the hardest and focus most of your efforts there! Don't forget that you can use hand elevation as well, to get a deeper ROM.

[Seiji]

Well the only bad part about calisthenics is that almost everything is a compound exercise.

[Blairbob]

Exactly. This is bordering on dumb or bodybuilding. However, as a coach I don't care much for either so that is sort of the POV.

Look good because you train hard, not train hard to look good. WTF, are you an abercrombie model? I hate narcissism.

Part of getting your upper body big is just volume. It helps to have genetics, too. If you don't, volume.

[dacicsak]

Try pike push-ups. They are pretty hard and will help you build strength to do handstand push-ups later. When they become easier, just raise your feet on something (could be your washing machine, a chair, a table, whatever…), so there will be more weight pressing against your arms. Just make sure you don't flare your elbows out. Make sure to test yourself and start in a position which allows you to do some reps.

Dont flare the elbows out? sorry but close hand placement emphasis on triceps more...Anyway im interested in this topic too, i want bigger shoulders too

So wide elbow flared out handstand pushups why isnt good? thanks

[Blairbob]

So wide elbow flared out handstand pushups why isnt good?

WRCI3By2WUA

[dacicsak]

So wide elbow flared out handstand pushups why isnt good?

WRCI3By2WUA

Thanks you very much! Great video!

One more interesting question...then in the Gymnastics Bodies Book why the "HeSPU - box" (first) variation is showed as a wide elbow flared out pushup? why isnt it showed as elbow in?

and could you tell me how can i do wide HSPUs or HeSPUs with wide stance? because it seems i cant do wide variation which works extremely the shoulder only if i flare the elbows out

or the narrower variation works the shoulder more? do i know it good? thanks in advance for the questions

[Blairbob]

going flared out is good for beginners, you'll notice in later version it's with the elbows in. there never has been a definitive answer.

I prefer elbows in from the get-go. As in from even an inclined pushup.

[dacicsak]

and is this available for the pullups too? elbows always tucked in? or for wide pullups is it okay to go as wide as possible (which is comfortable) and do pullups with elbows flared out tottally?

i just want to clear everything on the basics, because its important for the future improvements! thanks

[Blairbob]

If you keep a hollow body while doing a pullup with either supinated or pronated grip the elbows will be in.

There is a time and place for doing pullups by arching your upper back and trying to get shoulder blades and elbows to touch behind you. Generally I do shrugs like these in my WU. Bulgarians rows basically do this and with your arms wide, you are already externally rotated.

However, it is critical to develop the ability to do a pullup with a hollow body. It's one of the ways I can tell with gymnasts if there core is weak. It's also just poor mechanics, especially for MU.

[Luka Kopusar]

i have a similiar question. 1 month ago a started to do pushups with elbows close to the body, no space between ( i guess normal position :)). At first a shoulder started to click every rep, but no pain. 4 days later (for 1 week i was doing them 30-40 reps a day) clicking was lowered and after 1 week, no more pop or click. My shoulders felt healthier.

Now my question is about handstand pushups. Are elbows supposed to be the same as with pushups, there is little to no flare, they would be pointing straight behind you, nothing sideways. 

[Douglas Wadle]

don't flare the arms.  it puts your shoulders into impingement and may cause shoulder problems over time.  lots of videos of this in the course materials for foundation.  probably on youtube as well.

[Luka Kopusar]

Yea i get that, just particulary if there is any benefit from doing them with strict no flare policy.

[Jon Douglas]

Oh wow, i remember reading this thread. Before my time here. Huh.

 For future reference, please start a new topic rather than bump 5-year-old threads as a lot has changed around here since then!

Anyway the major point of not flaring the elbows is that it is much closer to a real handstand position, so that it is achievable for normal people  (not the Morandis etc of the world) to perform freebalancing hespu&hspu. As above maintaining a good hs line has many many benefits and as a side effect keeps the demands on the shoulders rather than outsourcing it to the arms so much. Until one has a great handstand line and free hspu reps, flaring the elbows is generally a bad habit as it tends to make wall-assisted reps easier

 

[Kate Abernethy]

Nice knowledgable answer Jon.

[But disagree about not bumping old threads - they are always a good read ]

[Luka Kopusar]

well, then im gonna do 100% no flaring, to get the strength benefits, with taking a few steps back. 

sorry about the old posts, but sometimes i get told dont repost old threads, then why do you open new thread, use the search system etc.

 

cheers

[Eva Pelegrin]

Gymnast minds: does the close in elbows, no flaring requirement also applies to Bridge Push ups? I think I know the answer to that question:) but just to be sure, since I'm planning to incorporate them in my program.

Oh, and I'm officially confused about reposting in old threads. Yes/No?

Please define "old." How many months/years is old.

Looks to me that many topics are timeless and that scrolling thru similar titles can get confusing sometimes. I agree with @Luka that using the search function saves time. I would love to see threads grouped in FOLDERS with titles that could help organize the content and make it easier to find stuff. E.g., I've read many post where someone points out that a certain subject has been discussed many times in the forum, yet as a new member you have no idea where to find those threads, unless someone provides a link. Regardless, this forum is a Godsend. I apologize if my post got out of topic at the end. 

[Coach Sommer]

The forum is organized according to general topics.  Further search refinement from that point on is the responsibility of the reader.  

Requiring the use of the search function accomplishes two goals:

1) It keeps the forum from becoming too cluttered with a hundreds and hundreds of 'folders'.

2) It separates the momentarily curious from those who are truly vested in learning more.  

Yours in Fitness,

Coach Sommer

[Ryan Bailey]

14 hours ago, Eva Pelegrin said:

I would love to see threads grouped in FOLDERS with titles that could help organize the content and make it easier to find stuff

Eva,

I like how Coach described that.

Personally, I have copied very important feedback and comments I see on the forum into my e-mail. I then save them into a folder for my personal review. Just an idea that worked for me.

Yes, I have a Zack and Alessandro video feedback folder, especialy during my first year, as well as other quotes here and there 

[Eva Pelegrin]

Hi Ryan! Yup-yup, I've already started my librarian project, jeje. When I said "folders" I was referring to grouping related threads that are now under a general topic. Sometimes, you don't know how far down the rabbit whole you went or what page you found what, when you're trying to go back there... Am I the only one? My suggestion was to organize the content a step further with a secondary level, say 5-10 folders per general topic. Not hundreds of folders because then you end up with the same issue you were trying to resolve. However, Coach already indicated that "further search refinement from that point on is the responsibility of the reader" and there's a reason for that.

- Happy exploring and learning for all!

[Chris Korovesis]

On July 19, 2011 at 3:26 AM, EastWind said:

Try pike push-ups. They are pretty hard and will help you build strength to do handstand push-ups later. When they become easier, just raise your feet on something (could be your washing machine, a chair, a table, whatever…), so there will be more weight pressing against your arms. Just make sure you don't flare your elbows out. Make sure to test yourself and start in a position which allows you to do some reps.

Or try box headstand push ups after pike push ups.