FSP - Why 60 Seconds Total Work?

[u3er]

Hi guys,

After realizing some major holes in my FSP strength - particularly technical flaws - I have decided to go back to the basics again and really focus on building a stronger foundation, in order to hopefully better prepare me for future gains. The slow and steady mentality...

After much research in the forums, I now understand that a single 60 second hold (for easier variations) is the measurement used to determine whether or not one is ready to progress to a more difficult static position. As I understand it, a 60 second hold demonstrates adequate joint/ligament development needed for progression to higher loads. This all makes sense to me. But what I am somewhat confused about is why we use only 60 seconds of TOTAL work when developing a SSC FSP program.

For example, a max Tuck Front Lever hold of 40 seconds will equate to 3x20 second working sets (40 second max @ 50% = 20 second hold, 60 second total working time/20 second hold = 3 sets). Easy enough. BUT, if the goal is to ultimately work up to a single MAX hold of 60 seconds, why are we only doing 60 seconds worth of work chopped up into several 50% sets? Why don't we use more than 60 second total working time to overload?

Given the Tuck Front Lever example above, I could just easily do 2x30 second work sets (60 seconds total), but that won't get me any closer to reaching a 60 second max hold... So can someone please elaborate on why only 60 seconds total working time is the recommended number?

Thank you!

[Michael Traynor]

Because we do 60s total work of each FSP as a warm up before our workouts, if you were always pushing your max times you would be too fatigued to do any useful work during your workouts.

[u3er]

Hey Breaks,

Thanks for your input. You're right, I've never considered the fact that FSP are warm-up exercises and thus are required to be lighter in intensity. This seems kind of obvious in retrospect now!

If FSP would become your primary workout though, how would things change? Would you start doing more than 60 seconds total work? Would you start using a higher than 50% load?

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Cheers,

A.J.

[Samuel Carr]

I think also the point is to go slowly when advancing fsp's because they cause a lot of stress on the joints which take longer to repair themselves and get stronger

[Julekman]

It is obvious that in the beginning, someone must first build volume for FSP. If say, you can do 10 sec hold max for first variation, you will probably stuck there and risk injury if your intensity is always max or near that without proper base. In my opinion 60 sec in one position is the general guideline and it is a good mark that you are more then ready for the next step. That doesnt mean that your are not ready for full movement with less time especialy if you come close, that depends, but in the beginning your tendons need time to build proper foundation for harder variation, so we all need patience, especially from the start.

If you want to do more then 60 sec with more sets and more intensity because you believe that you can accomplish goal faster, then by all means go ahead, but you must carefully balancing your work with other elements too. Example, HS balancing work need lots of volume, and say you start with 15 to 30 min work., and thats ok for couple of days. But soon because of lack of proper foundation, your feel sharp pain in your wrists, and then what ? No training at all because you must heal and back to beginning. So carefully planing, and train smart.

[u3er]

So I guess what it comes down to is that both a 60 second max hold and sets of 60 seconds total work time are really about taking the time to ensure proper joint/ligament developement. Makes sense! Thanks for your input everyone

On a related point, when programming an FSP routine how many elbow intensive excercises should be completed (assuming working sets of 60 seconds total)? For example, my I'm testing a new routine that incorporates L-Sits, Straddle-Ls, XR Supports, German Hangs, Tuck Front Lever, and Planche Lean, all at 2x30s (I have lowered my difficulty level but increased hold times in order to better work on form & endurance). Since virtually all FSPs are hard on the joints, this routine actually adds up to 6 minutes total work time. Is this too much stress on the joints? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,

A.J.

[Julekman]

It is very smart that you lower difficulty and increase hold time, that is much better for building your joints, but is it too much or not ? Without gymnastic coach supervision only you can answer. So if you feel any discomfort, pain, no matter intensity, stop and cut the hold time till you are ready for more. The more you spend on different programs and stick to every one of them with dedication, the better you will know what is work for you, and what your body need. Spend some time with the same hold position and dont change anything. Coach call that Steady State cycle, it is smart way to progress without injuries. Good luck !

[u3er]

Thanks again Lekman for your advice!

I have completed steady states cycles before and am just trying to tailor a new routine for my next cycle - I too think that they are a great approach for keeping training safe and consistent!

Since I only recently found out about the recommendation for a 60 second max hold, my routine needed some serious changes after retesting my maxes - this is why I have so many questions! Even though I am able to hold straddle positions (for a short time) in most FSPs, I struggled to make 60s even in the most basic progressions... The endurance that is needed is rough!

Regarding the 60 second max hold test: should you progress to a harder FSP variation immediately once a 60 second hold is achieved (no matter how difficult/gruelling that 60 seconds felt) or should you only progress once a max hold of 60 seconds is completely fairly easily???

A.J.

[Julekman]

Set your goals and then its important to master one position static or dynamic before moving next, especially in the beginning, but like I said 60 sec is a general guideline but is not set in stone. If you are satisfied with couple of seconds in full FSP basic movement in the future, then 60 sec is not imperative for every possible variation listed in GB, but the road to accomplish some movement in gymnastic is not linear. Many people have their own way on that road and they are successful. We all need to start somewhere, and thanks to coach, we do. So a would say, try to accomplish 60 seconds with proper form (important), give a program time to bring some results, import some assisted dynamic exercises and with experience you will feel when its time to move next. The stronger base you build the better will be. The perfect program is not exist, just faith, dedication, patience, consistency, etc…

[Joshua Naterman]

Thanks again Lekman for your advice!

I have completed steady states cycles before and am just trying to tailor a new routine for my next cycle - I too think that they are a great approach for keeping training safe and consistent!

Since I only recently found out about the recommendation for a 60 second max hold, my routine needed some serious changes after retesting my maxes - this is why I have so many questions! Even though I am able to hold straddle positions (for a short time) in most FSPs, I struggled to make 60s even in the most basic progressions... The endurance that is needed is rough!

Regarding the 60 second max hold test: should you progress to a harder FSP variation immediately once a 60 second hold is achieved (no matter how difficult/gruelling that 60 seconds felt) or should you only progress once a max hold of 60 seconds is completely fairly easily???

A.J.

I would suggest running a full SSC with 30s hold times once you hit your 60s max test. It never hurts to make sure you are ready to move on! 8-12 weeks of SSC is nothing compared to 24-32 months of recovery and re-conditioning.

[Blairbob]

I've played around with doing 2-3m of say L-sit volume but not the other FSP. Maybe it's possible. It would take quite a bit of time though if I started volumizing FSP WU and FSP's. It actually makes a lot of sense for Wall HS.

Also bare in mind, I think this is more than enough when done in tandem with an FBE SSC or following the GBWOD.